* filling out a source template

[santatraugott]

I am sorry for the elementary nature of this question. I understand ( I think) the basics of citations to sources, and how to use source templates in FH7. But I get stymied when I try to figure out what elements of a citation appearing on line, go in what fields of a source template. Below is a typical source citation from Ancestry.
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Landesarchiv Berlin; Berlin, Deutschland; Personenstandsregister Geburtsregister; Laufendenummer: 900

Description
Year Range: 1880 (Zurückgeführtes Erstregister)

Source Information
Ancestry.com. Berlin, Germany, Births, 1874-1908 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.
Original data:Geburtenregister der Berliner Standesämter (Bestände P Rep. 100 bis P Rep. 840) 1874–1911. Digital images. Landesarchiv Berlin, Germany.
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I'm using the Essentials Source Template for Civil Registration Certificates. Where I'm getting stuck is, in what field does the Original Data go? I want to site both the online source (Ancestry) and the original data. Maybe that is too ambitious for the Essentials Source Template?

[AdrianBruce]

I am sorry for the elementary nature of this question. ...

Firstly I must confess that I don't use Source Templates so I may be missing the normal way of using them. But I don't think that you're asking an elementary question at all...

... I'm using the Essentials Source Template for Civil Registration Certificates. Where I'm getting stuck is, in what field does the Original Data go? I want to cite both the online source (Ancestry) and the original data. Maybe that is too ambitious for the Essentials Source Template?

Ancestry's "Original Data" seems to be, to use the usual phrase, "The Source of the Source". So far as I can see, the Essentials Templates don't seem to go in for "Source of the Source" much, if at all. They're derived from formats in Ian G MacDonald's book "Referencing for Genealogists", which I do have and he doesn't seem to have a lot of "Source of the Source" items either. Having said that, when I look at his specific examples, many of them don't seem to need the "Source of the Source". There is, for instance, only one "Source of the Source" for England & Wales Censuses (that's The National Archives) so why bother with it?

In your case, someone might argue that the original of the Berlin Geburtenregister is only held in one place and do you even really need to tell someone that it's in the Landesarchiv Berlin if they can go to Ancestry and see it there?

Personally, I would want to tell my readers about the Landesarchiv Berlin and any referencing used by them because (a) I want to help people to find the original as much as the Ancestry (or whatever) copy that I used, and (b) if I used an Ancestry version and they use a MyHeritage version, it may only be the Landesarchiv Berlin referencing that proves the reader is looking at the "same" thing in MyHeritage that I was in Ancestry.

I suspect that I'd want to add the "Source of the Source" to the Essentials templates if I used them (which I don't). I'm not sure quite what I'd add though because Ancestry does seem to repeat itself in its "citations", so I'm not clear how much I'd need to add.

All comments gratefully accepted...

[Gary_G]

I'm using the Essentials Source Template for Civil Registration Certificates. Where I'm getting stuck is, in what field does the Original Data go? I want to site both the online source (Ancestry) and the original data. Maybe that is too ambitious for the Essentials Source Template?

santatraugott;
Your confusion stems from trying to use two different styles of citation. The term "source-of-source" is one associated with the Evidence Explained style of citation, while the Essentials collection was created with input from the University of Strathclyde. The latter is as far from Evidence Explained style as it is possible to get and so has no concept of "source-of-source". If you want to have something that approaches the Evidence Explained style, then try the "Advanced" template collection instead.

I should caution you that Evidence Explained style is not for the faint-of-heart. One really needs the associated book to truly understand how the citations are constructed and what should go in the various fields.

All that said; the Ancestry "Original Data" is your source-of-source info. You're fortunate; Ancestry made this one easy to determine. Usually they are a mess. Don't be afraid to rearrange the stated information in some logical order. Perhaps the following would do.

"Geburtenregister der Berliner Standesämter (Bestände P Rep. 100 bis P Rep. 840) 1874-1911, Landesarchiv, Berlin, Germany."

If you feel that you'd like to translate the document title for your readers, that works too. Just don't translate the name of the institution.

Birth registers of the Berlin registry offices (holdings P Rep. 100 to P Rep. 840) 1874-1911, Landesarchiv, Berlin, Germany.

Hope this helps...

[santatraugott]

Thank you Gary. I had begun to suspect that might be the problem. I have read Evidence Explained and admire its thoroughness, but I'm not sure that it's appropriate for me.

[fhtess65]

I agree with everything Gary said. One note of caution - over the years I've discovered that Ancestry doesn't always get the Reference number correct in some of its Source of source listings - sometimes they lead to an entirely different church register. I now routinely check the catalogue of the holding repository as a double-check. Time-consuming? A tad, but at least I know my citation is correct. FindMyPast and FamilySearch have similar errors.

I'm using the Essentials Source Template for Civil Registration Certificates. Where I'm getting stuck is, in what field does the Original Data go? I want to site both the online source (Ancestry) and the original data. Maybe that is too ambitious for the Essentials Source Template?

<SNIP>

All that said; the Ancestry "Original Data" is your source-of-source info. You're fortunate; Ancestry made this one easy to determine. Usually they are a mess. Don't be afraid to rearrange the stated information in some logical order. Perhaps the following would do.
<SNIP>
Hope this helps...

[ColeValleyGirl]

Just to add, to record the equivalent of 'Source of a source', I would put 'Ancestry.com' in the URL field of the template and 'Berlin, Germany, Births, 1874-1908' in the Collection field. The template needs modifying to include those in the footnote, however.