* Adding Media files.

[Rosina]

I have started to add media files to my projects such as birth and marriage certificates. However I see that when I check on the charts these certificates show beside the person. I don't particularly want that to happen. Is this normal? Is there some way of entering the media files without them showing in the charts. I want to have my project printed and obviously don't want all these included.

[Valkrider]

How are you adding the media files? You should be attaching them as media to the various facts and not to the individual. See this article in the knowledgebase Getting Started You may be better off using Ancestral Sources to enter these type of facts.

[LornaCraig]

The usual recommendation for images of certificates is to link them to a Source record, and cite that Source for all the facts derived from the certificate (e.g. parents’ names, residence, age, occupation). You can also link the image directly to a fact.

You don’t say whether you have already created the birth/marriage/death facts to which the certificates relate. If you haven’t, then as Colin has suggested you might find the Ancestral Sources program useful because it automatically links the image of the certificate to a Source record and cites the Source against all the relevant facts, saving you a lot of time.

Images attached to the individual record as a whole are normally just photos of the individual. However if you want to continue to link other images to the whole record you can prevent them from appearing in diagrams by ticking the Exclude from Diagrams option in the Edit Media Item window for each image.

[Rosina]

How are you adding the media files? You should be attaching them as media to the various facts and not to the individual. See this article in the knowledgebase Getting Started You may be better off using Ancestral Sources to enter these type of facts.

Yes, I have been adding them to the individual. I have now tried to add some certificates to the Facts and it seems to have worked.
I have tried using Ancestral Sources and find it all a bit complicated. I have basically inserted all the data for each person anyway and I would just like now to do something with all the census and certificates that I have accumulated over a long time. What do most people do with all this data?

[NickWalker]

How are you adding the media files? You should be attaching them as media to the various facts and not to the individual. See this article in the knowledgebase Getting Started You may be better off using Ancestral Sources to enter these type of facts.

Yes, I have been adding them to the individual. I have now tried to add some certificates to the Facts and it seems to have worked.
I have tried using Ancestral Sources and find it all a bit complicated. I have basically inserted all the data for each person anyway and I would just like now to do something with all the census and certificates that I have accumulated over a long time. What do most people do with all this data?

Hi Rosina.

Have you watched the Ancestral Sources Introduction video. It may help you understand it better.

[tatewise]

The problem with adding them to the Facts is remembering all the Facts that were derived from the media.
The worst-case scenario is Census records which usually yield a Census event for each member of the household, plus an Occupation fact for most of them, and possibly a Birth event for some of them.

You ask what most people do with all this data. Most family historians use Source Citations to record where they discovered all the Facts.
That is what many of the answers to your questions are suggesting, but you may need to spend a little time understanding the process, otherwise AS may well be somewhat bewildering.

If you wish to explore that conventional approach then we can give you some guidance, but if happy to continue attaching media to Facts then that is fine.

[NickWalker]

The problem with adding them to the Facts is remembering all the Facts that were derived from the media.
The worst-case scenario is Census records which usually yield a Census event for each member of the household, plus an Occupation fact for most of them, and possibly a Birth event for some of them.

You ask what most people do with all this data. Most family historians use Source Citations to record where they discovered all the Facts.
That is what many of the answers to your questions are suggesting, but you may need to spend a little time understanding the process, otherwise AS may well be somewhat bewildering.

If you wish to explore that conventional approach then we can give you some guidance, but if happy to continue attaching media to Facts then that is fine.

I think if Rosina watches the video it may help her to understand how sources work as at the end of the process I show where in FH all the data appears that AS creates. The whole point of the video is for AS to then not be 'bewildering'. I think a lot of users using AS for the first time haven't previously used sources in FH and so this is a good way to start using them.

[BobWard]

What do most people do with all this data?

As suggested by Mike, I create Source records for my all Facts and then attach the media images (jpg format) to the Source record.

[Rosina]

Thank you all who replied to my query about Media files. At the moment as I have already added an enormous amount of data to my projects I think that I will try to add the media files to the Sources and when, and if, I have to enter completely new data I will try with Ancestral Sources. (Does that sound sensible?) I have tried, as suggested, by Nick in one of the videos, to copy a project and practice before attempting on my actual projects, without much success. However, back to the drawing board and another attempt once I start to understand all about Sources on FH. Many thanks to all and I will return shortly probably for more advice.

[Vyger]

Rosina,

Apologies for the late reply, I am on vacation.

I would agree documentary evidence media is best linked to Source/Citation. It's important you understand the difference so you choose the best course for yourself so search out discussions on Lumpers versus Splitters.

Much evidence stems from most documentation so you may also want to explore Sharing facts by using the Witness feature.

I have just completed a series of Media related videos which may help, one link is below.

https://youtu.be/YBCaOVLX_hE?si=v-3-3tpSdczNpc9A

[NickWalker]

Thank you all who replied to my query about Media files. At the moment as I have already added an enormous amount of data to my projects I think that I will try to add the media files to the Sources and when, and if, I have to enter completely new data I will try with Ancestral Sources. (Does that sound sensible?) I have tried, as suggested, by Nick in one of the videos, to copy a project and practice before attempting on my actual projects, without much success. However, back to the drawing board and another attempt once I start to understand all about Sources on FH. Many thanks to all and I will return shortly probably for more advice.

If you try again using the video for guidance and hit problems then do ask for help with this, explaining what the problem is, and I'm sure we'll be able to help. As with all things that are new it can seem daunting at first, but once you get your head around it I'm sure you'll find it useful!

All the best

Nick

[fhtess65]

Hi Rosina,

I had similar issues to you. Nick very kindly provided a typed AS workflow viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21046&p=129140#p128788 for me and it helped immensely. When you're ready, have a look. Alongside the videos, I hope it will help you as much as it helped me.

<SNIP> At the moment as I have already added an enormous amount of data to my projects I think that I will try to add the media files to the Sources and when, and if, I have to enter completely new data I will try with Ancestral Sources. (Does that sound sensible?) I have tried, as suggested, by Nick in one of the videos, to copy a project and practice before attempting on my actual projects, without much success. <SNIP>

[trevorrix]

My choice is that I also link my source images to the individuals concerned, so the thumbnails show in the Media tab of the Property Box.

To answer your question, double click the thumbnail then tick Exclude From Diagrams which prevents the thumbnail also showing in charts/diagrams and in the Focus windows. There is a plugin that does that job for you in bulk.

[ADC65]

I also do exactly as Trevor does, and I don't believe this is unusual at all - I think there are a lot of people that do it.

A question for Nick though please - I use AS to link the image to the source and it does it successfully. As far as I know, there isn't the facility to also link the image to person (or people) is there? I might have asked this before.

Thanks.

[trevorrix]

Adrian - Agree, there are many of us that use that method. It is simple intuitave and quick.

In AS options there is a tick box to automatically link the image to the individuals. It works really well. I use AS method 2.

[Rosina]

Hi Rosina,

I had similar issues to you. Nick very kindly provided a typed AS workflow viewtopic.php?f=34&t=21046&p=129140#p128788 for me and it helped immensely. When you're ready, have a look. Alongside the videos, I hope it will help you as much as it helped me.

<SNIP> At the moment as I have already added an enormous amount of data to my projects I think that I will try to add the media files to the Sources and when, and if, I have to enter completely new data I will try with Ancestral Sources. (Does that sound sensible?) I have tried, as suggested, by Nick in one of the videos, to copy a project and practice before attempting on my actual projects, without much success. <SNIP>

Thank you for this extra information AS workflow from Nick. I have had a quick look at it and will certainly have another attempt along with the videos.

[Vyger]

My choice is that I also link my source images to the individuals concerned, so the thumbnails show in the Media tab of the Property Box.

I also do exactly as Trevor does, and I don't believe this is unusual at all - I think there are a lot of people that do it.

It always gives me cause for concern when I see workarounds being described as methods. Regardless of the software in question these are usually long time users who developed these workarounds back when there was no alternative and have not evolved to embrace software updates. I'm fully aware that every user is free to enter exactly as they want but there are often downsides to such methods.

In my previous software I had no option but to attach every document to the facts they supported, otherwise any visibility was lost without a psychic shovel.

I cover Media Linking and Filtering in this video, when I select Individual Media I expect to see media of Individuals, same for Families, Events, Places, Sources and Citations, I don't want to see virtually everything or a mixed bunch of media.

The current problem statement would be when you click the Property Box Media tab you only see Individual Media, to see all linked media requires two extra clicks and kicks you out to Media View. The view on the Property Box Media Tab can not be customised by the user, that is what those workarounds are trying to overcome. However linking media where it does not belong or making several links to the media is not only time consuming but negates the very useful media filtering tools not to mention reporting as designed.

I am currently relinking my previous BAD habit of Fact/Event linking to the Source or Citation where it logically belongs, and a long job. The reason is I want professional reports including Media where it is correctly linked. I also don't want the additional steps of double clicking each thumbnail and selecting Exclude from Diagrams, another work around.

Hopefully I haven't offended anyone, each can do as they wish but there are usually consequences to be realised when you step outside the program design. The simple answer to this problem would be a select option so the user could define exactly what categories of Media they want to see when they click on the Property Box Media Tab, not trying to hammer a nail in with a bread roll.

That's what the Family Historian Wish list is for so go visit and WISH for improvements.

[ADC65]

Well I'm not offended, but I do think you are mistaken. It's not a workaround for me - it's doing exactly what I want it to do, for a number of reasons. I like having the media on that tab for one thing. I'm not aware of any rule that says what should be there and what should not (probably because there isn't one!) But additionally, I maintain (via an export from FH) an external site on TNG which benefits from having the media attached to a person (it will work having the media attached to a fact, but aesthetically I prefer the former). I do also attach the media to the source.

With a program as flexible as FH there are always going to be a number of ways of accomplishing something, and therefore different people will have different needs that can be met with different methods. Labelling your preferred option as a method and the others as workarounds is not really helpful. It wouldn't bother me at all if there were extra options on the media tab, for example the ability to select what media types get shown, so if it benefits someone else I'm all for it. In the meantime I'll eat my bread roll rather than use it as a hammer

[LornaCraig]

It wouldn't bother me at all if there were extra options on the media tab, for example the ability to select what media types get shown...

There is something a little bit like that already. The Media tab itself only shows media linked directly to the whole record, but under the tools (cog wheel icon) menu in the media tab you can choose to either
View pictures (etc) of <individual's name> in Media Window or
View Media linked to < individual's name> in Media Window..
If you choose the latter option you then get a further choice (the Record itself, Associated Events/Facts, Associated Places, Associated Sources and Source citations, and 'include Spouse Family records...'). I often make use of that.

[NickWalker]

From my point of view with Ancestral Sources I do like to at least feel that there is some logic to new features I'm adding. If someone asked me to add a setting to allow them to save their census entries as a baptism fact I would suggest that isn't sensible and wouldn't do it. It doesn't make any sense to me to have the image of a census being added as the photograph of an individual - it isn't a photograph of the person, it is a photograph of a source document! So this isn't something I'd add as a feature except reluctantly. Having said that I did add this as a feature for method 2 as has been mentioned - I did this because I was asked nicely and also as method 2 is already something I don't recommend, I don't feel so protective of adding something I can't recommend to a method I don't recommend

It would be relatively easy for both Family Historian and TNG to offer an option to show the media linked to sources within the images shown for an individual and then there wouldn't be any need to link them directly to the individual and this would keep everyone happy.

[ADC65]

In AS options there is a tick box to automatically link the image to the individuals. It works really well. I use AS method 2.

Thanks Trevor. I use Method 1 so unfortunately it won't work for me.

[ADC65]

... and this would keep everyone happy.

Ha! I'm not sure that day will ever arrive!

It's fair enough if you don't want to add it of course. I wasn't actually expecting you to add it, I just wondered if I'd missed a setting. At the moment AS does 95% of the slog for me and all I do is go and link the media afterwards in FH. It's not laborious but I do have to remember to do it consistently.

However, I do think you might also be misunderstanding why some people want it. I don't see the Media Tab as a Photo Tab, it's not named that, it's the Media Tab on the Individual Property Box, so there's no real reason to restrict it to only photographs of people if that doesn't suit - it's personal preference, and I understand that our preferences are different. As I said in my previous post, having the Media also linked to the person helps with the aesthetics on my external TNG page, but I accept this is niche.

[NickWalker]

However, I do think you might also be misunderstanding why some people want it. I don't see the Media Tab as a Photo Tab, it's not named that, it's the Media Tab on the Individual Property Box, so there's no real reason to restrict it to only photographs of people if that doesn't suit - it's personal preference, and I understand that our preferences are different.

But that's exactly what I said so I'm not misunderstanding: The media tab shouldn't have to be restricted to just images linked to the individual but currently there isn't a setting in FH that allows it to display images linked to sources that are linked to the individual. So currently to do so one has to work around this limitation in FH and physically link the image directly to the individual. A relatively simple change to FH (and TNG) would allow the media tab to show those images without having to do this.

[LornaCraig]

currently to do so one has to work around this limitation in FH and physically link the image directly to the individual. A relatively simple change to FH (and TNG) would allow the media tab to show those images without having to do this.

I suspect that CP feel they have provided something close to this with the option I mentioned in my previous post, i.e. View Media linked to < individual's name> in Media Window. The Media window, being much bigger than the Media tab of the Property box, can display far more thumnails, avoiding the need for scrolling in the Property box.

[Vyger]

It's not a workaround for me - it's doing exactly what I want it to do....

Labelling your preferred option as a method and the others as workarounds is not really helpful.

The only reason I commented was to prevent anyone from being misled. Any time you suggest something outside the design concept which may well work perfectly for your needs remember to also inform the downsides, in this case Diagram Media, Narrative and other report Media, Web site creation, Media Filtering etc all of which are design aspects of FH.

I don't see the Media Tab as a Photo Tab, it's not named that, it's the Media Tab on the Individual Property Box, so there's no real reason to restrict it to only photographs of people if that doesn't suit

You are correct the Properties Box Media Tab does not show media other than those linked to Individuals. Your desire that it should has led you to linking media incorrectly, that is your choice and it has downsides. I have no concern how you add and link media, I'm always happy users find a method that works for them personally, I just wouldn't want someone to grab a suggestion here and regret that course of action maybe years later.

Personally I am not happy ALL media is not even optionally available to view in the Property Box Media Tab but I can accept the suggestion by LornaCraig that, perhaps, CP believe a larger window suits better for larger collections.

All the objections being heard I would suggest at least the option for ALL media to appear on the Media Tab as an indication, if that appears excessive to view then a single button to View in a Media Window would suffice.

Suggesting a work around by linking media incorrectly (outside the program design concept) is not a forward thinking or productive suggestion.