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Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 14:46
by OlivierM
Hello,

In narrative reports, I want to include the witnesses of marriages with their occupation, which is often recorded and a very valuable information.

I found out that I can use the Sentence Template Codes to achieve this, and I was able to create the following sentence:

"Paul SIMON is said to be a Plumber in Antwerp on 1 april 1856 when attending the marriage of Charles JANSSENS and Maria PEETERS in Brussels, "

by using the following structure,
and entering the occupation (and place) in the note field of the witness.

{individual} is qualified as {=GetLabelledText(%CUR~WITN.NOTE2%, "Occupation:")} {date} when attending the marriage of {principal} {place} as witness.

But is it possible to create a sentence with many witnesses saying
"At the marriage of Charles JANSSENS and Maria PEETERS the witnesses were Paul SIMON, plumber in Antwerpen, Anthony VAN ESSEN, lawyer in Ghent, and Karel BOLSENS,

I did not find out how to achieve this.

Any idea ?

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 14:59
by tatewise
No, that is not possible because the list of Fact Witnesses is composed by the {role=...} codes that only list Names.

It would need an enhancement to the {role=...} codes to allow Fact Witness Notes to be included.
That would be even more complex if various Labelled Notes were to be filtered.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 15:21
by OlivierM
tatewise wrote: 20 Nov 2023 14:59 No, that is not possible because the list of Fact Witnesses is composed by the {role=...} codes that only list Names.

It would need an enhancement to the {role=...} codes to allow Fact Witness Notes to be included.
That would be even more complex if various Labelled Notes were to be filtered.
OK and thank you. I was afraid to hear this :-)

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 17:03
by AdrianBruce
If (big if) the Fact Witnesses are name only, then I alter the witnesses' name to be a description, e.g. instead of "Paul Simon" as a name, I enter a "name" of "Paul Simon, plumber of Antwerp".

Sorry if you have Witnesses as Individuals, or a mix of the two types.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 18:10
by tatewise
So Adrian, presumably you are happy with Fact Witnesses not being listed in their own Property Box and Reports?

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 19:12
by ColeValleyGirl
tatewise wrote: 20 Nov 2023 18:10 So Adrian, presumably you are happy with Fact Witnesses not being listed in their own Property Box and Reports?
As Adrian specifically said his approach applied to 'Name only' witnesses, I'm sure he knows the consequences.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 20:38
by AdrianBruce
tatewise wrote: 20 Nov 2023 18:10 So Adrian, presumably you are happy with Fact Witnesses not being listed in their own Property Box and Reports?
Yup. When I use Name-Only witnesses, it's precisely because I don't want them clogging up property boxes, etc. I really don't want the assorted rectors of Nantwich (e.g.) appearing as individuals in my files. What I would like to do is to use their name in the narrative sentence so that my output is consistent - consistent in the sense that I don't forget to record the minister, and consistent in that I'm not scrabbling around for the best phrasing every time.

I'd been using Name-Only witnesses for ages before I twigged that I could happily add some extra text to their name. Admitted that might raise eyebrows at the sort-of-misuse of an item but I'm dubious about how often the data will be used elsewhere.

If a parish priest or registrar turns out to be a relative then I can backtrack and turn the entry into a Witness As Individual. This is so rare that I can accept the risk of having to do that.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 21:44
by tatewise
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 20 Nov 2023 19:12
tatewise wrote: 20 Nov 2023 18:10 So Adrian, presumably you are happy with Fact Witnesses not being listed in their own Property Box and Reports?
As Adrian specifically said his approach applied to 'Name only' witnesses, I'm sure he knows the consequences.
The question was meant to be rhetorical and aimed at others who may be reading this thread to highlight that side effect of Name-only Witnesses.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 21:51
by ColeValleyGirl
tatewise wrote: 20 Nov 2023 21:44
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 20 Nov 2023 19:12
tatewise wrote: 20 Nov 2023 18:10 So Adrian, presumably you are happy with Fact Witnesses not being listed in their own Property Box and Reports?
As Adrian specifically said his approach applied to 'Name only' witnesses, I'm sure he knows the consequences.
The question was meant to be rhetorical and aimed at others who may be reading this thread to highlight that side effect of Name-only Witnesses.
Maybe next time, make that intention clear, Mike. If you address a question to a named individual, it doesnt come across as rhetorical.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 20 Nov 2023 23:03
by OlivierM
AdrianBruce wrote: 20 Nov 2023 17:03 If (big if) the Fact Witnesses are name only, then I alter the witnesses' name to be a description, e.g. instead of "Paul Simon" as a name, I enter a "name" of "Paul Simon, plumber of Antwerp".

Sorry if you have Witnesses as Individuals, or a mix of the two types.
Excellent idea, Adrian. I have yet to check how the Name Only witnesses appear (or not) in Indexes, etc.

I focus a bit on the narrative records, and I have always loved the sentence construction of TMG, secondsite and now of FH, but at the same time, I must be honest: a well-built sentence in a note field is sometimes more explicit and readable than the sentences produced by these algorithms.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 21 Nov 2023 08:02
by ColeValleyGirl
OlivierM wrote: 20 Nov 2023 23:03 a well-built sentence in a note field is sometimes more explicit and readable than the sentences produced by these algorithms.

I don't use narrative reports, but agree with you. It's a better use of my time to write a good specific sentence in a Note field when it's needed than it is to wrestle with arcane sentence templates that will never produce a result as good.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 21 Nov 2023 17:09
by AdrianBruce
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 21 Nov 2023 08:02... It's a better use of my time to write a good specific sentence in a Note field when it's needed than it is to wrestle with arcane sentence templates that will never produce a result as good.
Also agreed. Just in case anyone hasn't seen this before, I will often replace the generated sentence for a particular event / attribute in a Narrative Report with the contents of the Note for that event / attribute. To do that, alter the sentence for that one event / attribute to read

<para>{note}

There is a setting to ensure Notes are printed in a narrative report regardless of whether they are in the sentence or not - if you have that set (as I do), then don't worry about the {note} appearing twice - Calico Pie must have sensibly put some specific handling in to stop that happening.

Another trick is when I have 2 or 3 facts for very similar events - for instance, being issued with 3 different campaign medals on the same date. I have 3 different facts so I can search for the 3 medals in queries, but the full narrative details for all 3 are in the Note for the 1st medal only. The 2nd and 3rd then have their sentence set to "Exclude Sentence". NB - you may need to be careful with your source citations to ensure all sources are cited against the 1st medal.

Re: Sentence Template Codes

Posted: 22 Nov 2023 08:17
by OlivierM
Most interesting, thank you.

I sometimes wonder if I will ever manage to know all the possibilities of FH.