* Full Backup

Questions regarding use of any Version of Family Historian. Please ensure you have set your Version of Family Historian in your Profile. If your question fits in one of these subject-specific sub-forums, please ask it there.
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

I have noticed that there is a slowdown of my Full Backup, to the point of stationary, and I have been speculating on why, and could I speed it up. I suspect it could be down to the size of the files linked to those records and it would be nice to know which records ,so I could try and shrink them.
A number is displayed during the backup, can that be used to find them?
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
avatar
jelv
Megastar
Posts: 671
Joined: 03 Feb 2020 22:57
Family Historian: V7
Location: Mere, Wiltshire

Re: Full Backup

Post by jelv »

Where is the backup being written to - is it on the PC or somewhere like a Google drive or OneDrive?
John Elvin
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks for the reply.
Everything is on the same device, my laptop.
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

One more bit of info. The Backup runs at speed for about 2/3s of the file then it stops and stutters on from there.
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

A common culprit is the Project ...fh_data\Cache\ThumbCache.dat file that can get very large.
Try deleting it. It will automatically get rebuilt if necessary.

Otherwise, there may be large files in the Media subfolder, but you imported them into FH so you should know about them.

If you perform a Medium Backup instead, do you suffer the same problematic delays?
If not then the problem files must be in the Public subfolder which is excluded in a Medium Backup.
So use Windows File Explorer to search them out. Do you need advice on how to do that?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks Mike.
Deleting ThumbCache.dat did seem to speed things up but did not stop the stops.
Running a Medium backup shows the same hesitations, so I guess it must be the media that is the cause.
Can the 'Record Number' displayed during the backup be used to determine exactly where to look?
(I think the banner on the snapshot is likely due to me running the snipping tool.)
Backup stop.JPG
Backup stop.JPG (62.28 KiB) Viewed 1423 times
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

I think the numbers displayed are a file counter not a record number.
Backup only saves files, i.e. the GEDCOM file, and all the other files in the Project folder.
Record numbers only apply within the GEDCOM database.
So your screenshot is saying it is saving the 580th file out of a total of 681 files in your Project folder.

You need to use Windows File Explorer to review the files in the Media folder and its subfolders.
Use the Details view and click on the Size column to sort large files to the top.
Are there any unusually large files?

Also, in FH try running the Check for Unlinked Media plugin to see if any large rogue files have infiltrated the Media folder and should not be there.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks again.
I have used Windows Explorer and found some large Word documents and so have converted them to pdfs which has reduced them a lot. :)
However the biggest are video avi files. Searching online suggests that these can be reduced but I am not sure what format I should go for!
I do have Photoshop Premier Elements so I will have a play with that.
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

One point of clarification please. Are all files in the FH folders backed up, regardless of if they are in the project or not? I have tended to save WIP files in the Media folders, perhaps I should keep them somewhere else?
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

Yes, I think every file inside the Project folder is included in the Backup and certainly all files in the Media folder.

Keeping WIP files somewhere else is only postponing their inclusion until they are added as linked Media.
So I don't see how that helps in the long term.

Presumably, you have a global backup regime for all your PC files as a whole.
Thus all the FH Project files are preserved by that global regime, so what purpose do the FH Backups serve?

For example, all my files are held in OneDrive so a 'backup' copy instantly exists in the cloud and on a synced PC.
Also each week a separate local disk backup is produced for all important files including FH.
So I rarely bother with the FH Project Backups and rely on Snapshots for temporary GEDCOM hicups.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Well that was an enormous rabbit hole I have just been down!
My Backup strategy is a bit belt and braces and then another belt.
After any large changes to my PC I run a sync program to copy updated files to my NAS.
I take a lot of Phots and have them backed up to a Google Drive.
I also have selected folders sync'd to OneDrive and so I thought I would check it. It hasn't updated my FH files since February this year ???? :o
I then tried to find out why and that was the rabbit hole waiting for me:
There is no OneDrive Icon in the TaskBar popup
I do have a OneDrive Folder showing in Explorer and some of the folders are Syncing, but not FH !!

I have then gone around and around OneDrive help online without success and what has been most annoying is that at nearly every turn MS want me to Buy/Upgrade something......

Sorry about the rant. Going to go and have a beer and cool down.
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

If there is no grey cloud OneDrive icon in the Notification area to the right of the Taskbar then OneDrive is almost certainly not running. Try opening the Task Manager (right-click Start or Taskbar) and check that a Process exists for Microsoft OneDrive.

If not, then use Search for OneDrive and run the OneDrive app. Then check the OneDrive Settings.
OneDrive should automatically start whenever you sign in as long as it knows your Microsoft Account.
Perhaps there is something stopping it from running.
I keep an eye on the Notification area to check key background processes like OneDrive and Antivirus are running.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks for your thoughts on this Mike. It is very weird and I haven't yet found the cause or a solution.
Explorer shows all the folders I originally chose to sync. 3 out of the 6 are up to date, the other 3 show the 8th of February 2023, and that includes FH and my CAD data.
Going into Settings from Explorer it looks like the only folders I can choose are the basic ones, not the ones I want.
OneDrive does not show in the Notification Pop up
Task Manager shows in View>Group by Type: Widows Explorer> One Drive - Personal. 0.3% Very Low.

Perhaps because I have the free basic version I don't get to choose the folders?
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

Which version of Windows are you using? 10 or 11?
As far as I'm aware there is only one version of OneDrive and it is free.

In Task Manager I don't enable View > Group by Type and just list all Processes and sort by Name.
Microsoft OneDrive is usually listed with 0% CPU unless it is actually syncing.

OneDrive would appear to be running to some extent otherwise its Settings would not be available.

I think I need to see some screenshots of the Notification area bottom right and the OneDrive Settings tabs.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks for sticking with this for me.
I also looked at the Details in Task Manager and found that OneDrive was Running and Disabled ??
That makes no sense to me.
I will sort out some screenshots to supplement my words over the weekend.
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

Are you on the Details tab of Task Manager and seeing Status = Running with UAC Virtualisation = Disabled?
That is perfectly normal for the Processes with your Username. I'm sure you can see lots like that.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Yes that was exactly what it says on the Details page.

This is what shows in Explorer. The small icons on the tree view seem to relate to the folders that are syncing.
Explorer view.JPG
Explorer view.JPG (58.42 KiB) Viewed 1236 times
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

Yes, that looks good with all folders being managed by OneDrive and I think you are running Windows 11.
Those Status icons tell me you have Files On-Demand enabled which means if you lose the Internet connection your files may not be on your PC disk drive and only exist (out of sight) in the OneDrive cloud.

I am fascinated why you cannot find the OneDrive cloud icon in the Notification area - a screenshot would help.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks Mike. Actually it is Win10 Pro.
It was the first thing I tried using the Snipping Tool but the Notification Popup disappears as soon as I click 'New' ???? Any suggestions?
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
LornaCraig
Megastar
Posts: 3247
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 17:36
Family Historian: V7
Location: Oxfordshire, UK

Re: Full Backup

Post by LornaCraig »

To take a screenshot of a pop-up with the Snipping Tool, set the Delay to 5 seconds before clicking New. You then have 5 seconds to produce the pop-up again before the tool comes into action.
Lorna
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks Lorna.
Popup.JPG
Popup.JPG (31.66 KiB) Viewed 1203 times
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

I have to admit I am unfamiliar with that Notification popup feature.
All my background processes are shown all the time on the same row and to the right of the Taskbar:
image.png
image.png (6.62 KiB) Viewed 1191 times
How do you get the popup feature? Is it only a Windows Pro feature?

However, it is odd that the OneDrive cloud is not shown.

If you have not done so for a while it may be wise to perform a PC Power Restart NOT a Shut down.
That bypasses Quick Start and rebuilds your Windows Profile from scratch.

The only other thing I can think of is to use Task Manager to select OneDrive and click End task.
Then use Search for OneDrive on the left of the Taskbar and run the OneDrive app that gets listed.

At some stage screenshots of the OneDrive Settings tabs might help.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
BillH
Megastar
Posts: 2263
Joined: 31 May 2010 03:40
Family Historian: V7
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Full Backup

Post by BillH »

Mike,

Right click somewhere on a blank portion of the taskbar, select taskbar settings, scroll down to "Select which icons appear on the taskbar", and turn off "Always show all icons in the notification area". Then you can select which ones show on the task bar and which are hidden unless you pop up the hidden icons. You do this by clicking on the icon which now appears in the tray. I am on Win 10 so don't know if it is different on Win 11.

image.png
image.png (6.24 KiB) Viewed 1169 times

Bill
Bill Henshaw
avatar
peterbel
Superstar
Posts: 361
Joined: 21 Nov 2014 20:24
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cornwall

Re: Full Backup

Post by peterbel »

Thanks all for your inputs.
I tried a Restart and although it kicked off an Adobe Cloud re-install it didn't effect OneDrive.
I had come to a similar conclusion Mike, the solution might be to uninstall and re-install but OneDrive isn't an App/Program so I was going to web search how to remove and replace it. I'll try the Stop and Run method first.
Tracing the Devon Bellamy family along with their partners.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28584
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: Full Backup

Post by tatewise »

Peter, is it that ^ up arrow popup described by Bill that you used to display the process icons?
Is there no OneDrive cloud icon in the black Notification bar below?

In your earlier screenshot, it seems that all the folders are synchronising correctly.
Earlier you were concerned that some showed 8th February 2023 and thought it implied they were not synced.
I now suspect you were looking at the Date modified column which is not a sync date but the date the file or folder was last modified on the PC.

There are various ways to uninstall the OneDrive app/program:
  • In the Start lefthand list of apps you should find OneDrive listed under O and right-click offers Uninstall.
  • In the Start large pane of icons you may find OneDrive shown and right-click offers Uninstall.
  • In Start > Settings > Apps > Apps & features Microsoft OneDrive can be selected to see the Uninstall button.
  • Use Search for OneDrive and the listed OneDrive app has an Uninstall option.
I believe OneDrive will auto-install when you reboot the PC.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
Post Reply