* footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Questions regarding use of any Version of Family Historian. Please ensure you have set your Version of Family Historian in your Profile. If your question fits in one of these subject-specific sub-forums, please ask it there.
Locked
avatar
b10455
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: 03 Nov 2023 14:38
Family Historian: V7

footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by b10455 »

I would like to know how to show footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text in columns within a query.

From the Sources tab in the Records Window, I can select a source record, click on the gear icon in the associated Properties Box, and select "Show Source Record's Citations in Result Window.

The right column in the Result Window displays the Footnote text for each use of the source record.

It seem like I ought to be able to create a custom Query that would replicate the Result Window results to include columns for Footnote, Short Footnote, and Bibliography text?

I can't figure out what data reference, expression, or function I need to use to create these columns.

Regards,

Brad
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28414
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by tatewise »

Welcome to the FHUG Brad.

I don't think there is any mechanism to render those formatted fields in a Query, Records Window Column, etc.
The data references are easy enough and would be such as %SOUR._SRCT>FOOT% for a Footnote.
But that just returns the formatting text.
A function is needed to render the Footnote text derived from the metafields and there is no such function.

There is a devious technique feasible in a custom plugin that could produce a Result Set very close to what you are looking for (similar to what a Query might produce) but it would be a steep learning curve for a newcomer.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
avatar
b10455
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: 03 Nov 2023 14:38
Family Historian: V7

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by b10455 »

Thanks for your help Mike. At least I'm not missing something obvious. Cheers.
User avatar
sbell95
Famous
Posts: 154
Joined: 14 Feb 2021 06:04
Family Historian: V7
Location: Australia

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by sbell95 »

tatewise wrote: 03 Nov 2023 15:30 There is a devious technique feasible in a custom plugin that could produce a Result Set very close to what you are looking for (similar to what a Query might produce) but it would be a steep learning curve for a newcomer.
I am curious about the "devious technique" because what Brad is trying to achieve is something that I have also been looking to do. I've never understood why the %SOUR._SRCT>FOOT% data reference returns the formatting text as opposed to the actual metafields/constructed footnote. There was a post on Facebook for the Zoom group (by Gary Gauthier I think) who was wanting to print a synopsis/report of all the info for a specific citation to print as effectively a cover sheet for his sources, but we could not come up with a solution either...
Sarah Bell – Australia
User avatar
Mark1834
Megastar
Posts: 2511
Joined: 27 Oct 2017 19:33
Family Historian: V7
Location: South Cheshire, UK

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by Mark1834 »

sbell95 wrote: 04 Nov 2023 00:01 I am curious about the "devious technique" because what Brad is trying to achieve is something that I have also been looking to do. I've never understood why the %SOUR._SRCT>FOOT% data reference returns the formatting text as opposed to the actual metafields/constructed footnote. There was a post on Facebook for the Zoom group (by Gary Gauthier I think) who was wanting to print a synopsis/report of all the info for a specific citation to print as effectively a cover sheet for his sources, but we could not come up with a solution either...
It's a neat solution (proposed by Colevalleygirl) that creates a temporary record as a placeholder, copies the data into a Note, which plugins can access easily, then deletes the placeholder. It's relatively straightforward coding, but obviously only available to those who have mastered rudimentary plugins.
Mark Draper
User avatar
sbell95
Famous
Posts: 154
Joined: 14 Feb 2021 06:04
Family Historian: V7
Location: Australia

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by sbell95 »

Mark1834 wrote: 04 Nov 2023 10:02 It's a neat solution (proposed by Colevalleygirl) that creates a temporary record as a placeholder, copies the data into a Note, which plugins can access easily, then deletes the placeholder. It's relatively straightforward coding, but obviously only available to those who have mastered rudimentary plugins.
Thanks Mark. That's above my current plugin knowledge/pay grade, but good to know that there is a workaround for those who are interested in implementing it.
Sarah Bell – Australia
User avatar
ColeValleyGirl
Megastar
Posts: 5502
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

I can't imagine that I was ever devious.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28414
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by tatewise »

Mark1834 wrote: 04 Nov 2023 10:02 It's a neat solution (proposed by Colevalleygirl) that creates a temporary record as a placeholder, copies the data into a Note, which plugins can access easily, then deletes the placeholder. It's relatively straightforward coding, but obviously only available to those who have mastered rudimentary plugins.
I'm not sure I agree that it is "relatively straightforward coding".
e.g. See the Export Gedcom File plugin script lines 3294 to 3333 and 5656 to 5738.
It is necessary to interrogate the Windows Registry settings for the BOOK and TITLE qualifiers.
Style codes for Italics, Bold & Underline are not supported because it relies on the fhSrcEnableAutoTitle() function that formats the Source Record Title which does not allow those codes.
For the same reason, Citation-specific Metafields used in the Format are not supported.
The script increases the Record Id for both Source and Source Template records due to the placeholders created, unless Edit > Undo Plugin Updates is used afterwards.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
sbell95
Famous
Posts: 154
Joined: 14 Feb 2021 06:04
Family Historian: V7
Location: Australia

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by sbell95 »

I was inspired by Brad's OP and Mark's suggestion of Helen's workaround for this particular issue to look again at what can be done at a more basic level. The mention of using a temporary note caused me to try creating a custom note for each of my sources (which, yes, would have to be created manually... or by ORA) containing labelled text for the full and short footnotes and source list entry (in EE style). This could then be accessed via the data reference =GetLabelledText(%SOUR.NOTE2[1]%,"First Footnote:"), for example.
Screenshot 2023-11-04 221149.png
Screenshot 2023-11-04 221149.png (137.89 KiB) Viewed 643 times
Creating a custom query to show each of the labelled text fields seems to work, although the italics and web links do not seem to be displayed properly.
Screenshot 2023-11-04 221329.png
Screenshot 2023-11-04 221329.png (59.66 KiB) Viewed 643 times
I'm uncertain where/how else this could be used, but perhaps more experienced users can chime in and suggest improvements or broader application. It is obviously creating more work for sources, which can already be time-consuming, but it may help some users who are trying to do this type of thing!
Sarah Bell – Australia
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28414
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by tatewise »

I don't believe that is the technique being proposed and presumably it involves a manual process of copying the Footnote, Bibliography, etc, text from the Citation side panel into a local Note for each and every Source record.

The OP was requesting something more automatic and that is what the plugin script offers.

Neither of those methods handles style codes for italics, bold & underscore nor Citation-specific Metafields.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
Mark1834
Megastar
Posts: 2511
Joined: 27 Oct 2017 19:33
Family Historian: V7
Location: South Cheshire, UK

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by Mark1834 »

The viability of an automatic solution probably depends on whether you are a splitter or a lumper.

If you are a splitter, generating a simple table of Footnote, Short Footnote and Bibliography text (but not formatting) for each Templated Source should be quite straightforward, as it doesn't need the more complex processing of the Export GEDCOM plugin. However, the technique described above can only tabulate data from the Source, not the Citation, so I don’t think the original request to display that data for each citation is viable.

If there is interest, a suitable plugin could be worked up for Store publication.
Mark Draper
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28414
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by tatewise »

Mark1834 wrote: 04 Nov 2023 23:49 If you are a splitter, generating a simple table of Footnote, Short Footnote and Bibliography text (but not formatting) for each Templated Source should be quite straightforward, as it doesn't need the more complex processing of the Export GEDCOM plugin.
Please explain how to achieve that ~ are you talking about manually, or using a plugin, or what?
I'm not sure what you mean by "but not formatting".
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
Mark1834
Megastar
Posts: 2511
Joined: 27 Oct 2017 19:33
Family Historian: V7
Location: South Cheshire, UK

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by Mark1834 »

This is from the simple test script I wrote yesterday:
Capture.PNG
Capture.PNG (22.34 KiB) Viewed 526 times
I would have thought it was obvious that I was talking about a custom plugin, as I referred to a "suitable plugin" at the end of the post.

All it does is loop through Templated Sources, with the following sequence of actions:
  • Store the current Title format.
  • Copy the Footnote format to the Title, update using fhSrcEnableAutoTitle(), and store in a table.
  • Repeat for Short Footnote and Bibliography.
  • Restore the original Title format and update.
  • Once all Templated Sources have been processed, output the result and display.
Again, I would have thought it obvious from the context, but " text (but not formatting) " means that the text is copied, but not its formatting, which I don't think a plugin can access.

My crude demonstrator isn't ready for sharing, as it updates the timestamp for all Templated Sources, and does not check the existing Enable Auto Title status, but they are refinements to add once the core concept is tested.

Perhaps there is a gotcha that I've missed - I'm sure you'll tell me if there is ;), but isn't that all you need for a simple table of split source footnotes, short footnotes and bibliography fields?

None of that coding is complex (no more so than help examples) and it's easy for any plugin author to implement. The clever step was coming up with the idea in the first place!
Mark Draper
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28414
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by tatewise »

Mark1834 wrote: 05 Nov 2023 12:29 ... " text (but not formatting) " means that the text is copied, but not its formatting, which I don't think a plugin can access.

My crude demonstrator isn't ready for sharing, as it updates the timestamp for all Templated Sources, and does not check the existing Enable Auto Title status, but they are refinements to add once the core concept is tested.
That is the method the Export Gedcom File plugin script used originally several versions ago.

Users objected to the timestamps being updated on all the Templated Source records, so the script got more complex to use a temporary record which only bumps the Record Id once as that is less invasive if the user forgets to use Edit > Undo Plugin Updates.

The script also preserves the Enable Auto Title status.

Plugins can access the style formats for Italic, Bold, Underscore, Capitals and the :BOOK and :TITLE qualifiers.
If the user wishes the formatting to be preserved in rich text Notes then that can be achieved.
Again that is the added complexity in the Export Gedcom File plugin script.

IMO If users want those features then the Export Gedcom File plugin script is the way to go.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
Mark1834
Megastar
Posts: 2511
Joined: 27 Oct 2017 19:33
Family Historian: V7
Location: South Cheshire, UK

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by Mark1834 »

Mike,

Why do you feel you have to explain everything, when it’s clear from my comments that I know what the shortcomings of the simple script are and how to fix them?

I was offering a simple solution that may be all that is needed. If you are so keen to promote the uber-complex version that copes with all scenarios, then by all means go ahead.

I will make no further contributions to this thread.
Mark Draper
avatar
Woodg
Famous
Posts: 130
Joined: 08 Oct 2019 09:28
Family Historian: V7
Location: Orange, Australia

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by Woodg »

Mark1834 wrote: 05 Nov 2023 15:32 Mike,

Why do you feel you have to explain everything, when it’s clear from my comments that I know what the shortcomings of the simple script are and how to fix them?
I like it when Mike (or anyone else) gives full explanations, particularly when the post/thread being replied to is not clear or is about a complex issue. The people who post here are not the only people that read the forums. I have only a basic knowledge of FH, but I still like to read all posts as it gives me an idea of how I might use FH going forward, and what traps or limitations I might come upon in the future.

So, I say, keep the detailed questions/replies/discussions coming. I know I have plenty to learn.

Just my 2 cents worth (although with inflation it's probably only 1 cents worth now!

Glenn
User avatar
ColeValleyGirl
Megastar
Posts: 5502
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: footnote, short footnote, and bibliography text

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

I have deleted (as promised) discussion of the relative merits of this place versus the newly renamed FHZG, including questions of what should have been or has been asked where.

I'd also like to remind Mike and Mark that detailed programming discussion belongs in the Programming Technicalities forum; as Mark isn't intending to extend that discussion, I shan't waste time disentangling it.

Glenn, there's a line to be drawn somewhere between providing detail that is of value to a wider audience and/or helpful to a single individual, and teaching Grandma to suck eggs. All of us draw that line in different places, and can get quite annoyed if we feel we're being treated like Grandma, even if the person doing so is intending to be helpful.
Locked