* Wish List guidance and rules

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Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

How to craft a good Wish List Request

Describe the current Family Historian workings being specific about the area e.g.:
"Currently Family Historian..........."

Define the problem:
"This means I need to................."
"This breaks my workflow.....results in more clicks...."
"This means I can't..................."

Suggest a possible solution:
"It would be an improvement if......."

Please review the existing Wish List items and New Wish List Requests for related and overlapping items, and identify these in your proposal. Do NOT raise duplicate requests, Duplicates for existing requests or Requests for items which are already met within FH will be Closed without progressing to the Wish List.

Bear in mind that the developers may not overcome your difficulty in the way you envisage, so don't specify how the solution should look or how it should be implemented; focus instead on making it clear to the developers what new feature/facility you need and why. If there's an example of what you would like to see in another product, which makes it clearer what you want, reference that product. Example; "I'd like to be able to click on a table column in a note and have it resize to fit the current text, like the Auto fit capability in Excel". Feel free to include screen captures if possible as visual aids.

Remember that discussion may help uncover an existing feature that a user has overlooked (almost none of us know everything about Family Historian), and it may also identify objections to a proposal that must be addressed. This is why there is a built in delay of up to three months before any New Wish List Request is promoted to the Wish List itself.

Break down complex requirements into a number of related items. This helps us to keep track on the Wish List of what has been implemented and what is still outstanding, and allows people to vote for the elements they really care about without their support for other elements being misinterpreted.

A Request may or may not be promoted to the Wish List depending on support for the item. In general, it will be promoted after some discussion has taken place, if:
  • the request has been clearly formulated (either initially or after discussion) according to the guidelines above
  • and at least one other person other than the OP has expressed support
  • and there are have been no objections raised that have not been satisfactorily addressed by a revised proposal
If it hasn't proven possible to satisfy these conditions within the three months, the Request will put be On Hold for a further 12 months to allow further discussion and refinement. If it cannot be progressed to the Wish List by then, it will be Closed. Items which get no expressions of support in the first three months of their life will be Closed for lack of interest without being put On Hold.

Experience shows that items that 'bog down' in the first few months of life are often too complicated, unclear, or the original poster does not participate in discussions. The 12 months On Hold status is intended to allow for circumstances that prevent the original poster from driving their proposal forward, and/or to prompt the interested parties to refocus on a clearer request.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

This has attracted precisely zero comments, even from the usual suspects :).

Should Vyger (who has volunteered to run the Wish List) assume that everybody is happy with it?
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

One thing I've experienced is that a lack of comments on a wish list request was interpreted as a lack of interest when in fact it was such a straightforward clearly expressed request that there were no objections or comments and it could have quickly been moved to the wish list.

Not sure how we address that other than encouraging a simple reply such as "Agree" or "+1".
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

jelv wrote: 04 Nov 2023 16:10 One thing I've experienced is that a lack of comments on a wish list request was interpreted as a lack of interest when in fact it was such a straightforward clearly expressed request that there were no objections or comments and it could have quickly been moved to the wish list.

Not sure how we address that other than encouraging a simple reply such as "Agree" or "+1".
Vyger wrote: 30 Oct 2023 14:38 A Request may or may not be promoted to the Wish List depending on support for the item. In general, it will be promoted after some discussion has taken place, if:

<snip>

at least one other person other than the OP has expressed support[/list]

Is this too high a bar to pass?
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

It was in this case: viewtopic.php?t=21655

It's attracted 15 votes with an average of 3.8 since the wish list item was created.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

jelv wrote: 04 Nov 2023 16:41 It was in this case: viewtopic.php?t=21655

It's attracted 15 votes with an average of 3.8 since the wish list item was created.
That was created within the three months that's being proposed to allow time for a request to be noticed and discussed. (Even though it got caught up in efforts to clear the backlog.]

If it had reached three months without support, it would have gone On Hold for lack of support at which point you (who were presumably monitoring its progress?) could have posted to seek support.

There is a danger in moving items to the Wish List that have had absolutely no discussion: it makes the Wish List managers into gatekeepers. When time allows I'm wading through the backlog and prompting or support for anything that hasn't had any yet, e.g. Diagram Format Dialogue Box (18380). It's a contribution that anyone could make if they want to help out...
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

I've been thinking about this response and watching what's happening with other recent new suggestions.

Basically we are saying that a clear cut suggestion that nobody comments on because they have nothing to add waits three months, but one where where is a lot of 'discussion' (maybe disagreement) will be raised a lot quicker. That feels wrong to me.

It's a shame that there's no way phpBB can give a simple Like button - I did briefly wonder if the standard phpBB poll might be an option if it was enable on that board only - but that would probably mean more admin work when users started topics without a poll.

I don't appreciate people who 'bump' topics, but as you've not come up with any ideas I think after a couple of weeks (i.e. it's been included in at least one of the This week's active discussion topics in the FHUG Forums emails) a reply prompting responses is what is needed if I come across similar situations in future.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

jelv wrote: 10 Nov 2023 10:05 Basically we are saying that a clear cut suggestion that nobody comments on because they have nothing to add waits three months, but one where where is a lot of 'discussion' (maybe disagreement) will be raised a lot quicker. That feels wrong to me.
What we're saying is that there has to be some discussion of a suggestion before it makes it to the Wish List, or at least, expressions of support if something is so perfect it cannot be improved; if there's little or no discussion, it will progress slowly. If it's of interest to a number of motivated people, it might progress more quickly to a final form (but I would still leave it for a while to see if there was any other input before raising the Wish List Item.
I don't appreciate people who 'bump' topics, but as you've not come up with any ideas I think after a couple of weeks (i.e. it's been included in at least one of the This week's active discussion topics in the FHUG Forums emails) a reply prompting responses is what is needed if I come across similar situations in future.
Agreed, as I said here:
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 04 Nov 2023 17:06 When time allows I'm wading through the backlog and prompting for support for anything that hasn't had any yet, e.g. Diagram Format Dialogue Box (18380). It's a contribution that anyone could make if they want to help out...
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by tatewise »

John, I know there is not a 'Like' button but it is easy enough to enter a Reply with a suitable emoji such as:
👍

The standard Windows keyboard shortcut Windows key + period provides a set of emojis to select.
win-plus-period.png
win-plus-period.png (39.48 KiB) Viewed 1748 times
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

Mike, out of interest have you voted for https://fhug.org.uk/wishlist/wldisplay.php?wlwlref=598

Thanks for the pointer on how to enter emojis.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by tatewise »

I don't personally need that feature and would prefer Property Box customisation to support expressions so I've voted for Wish List 474.
Last edited by ColeValleyGirl on 10 Nov 2023 16:44, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Tidying up
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

What, pray tell, would 👍mean in the middle of a discussion. Approval of the previous post? The original post? I don't want to be guessing, thank you very much.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by tatewise »

I was responding to John regarding an alternative to a 'Like' button.
IMO it would be relevant when there was just a proposal and no opposing discussion.
Agreed that the meaning is not clear in a longer thread.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

tatewise wrote: 10 Nov 2023 19:05 IMO it would be relevant when there was just a proposal and no opposing discussion.
👍
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

Personally I have no problem praising someone for offering a good idea with a quick one liner.

The "discussion" process should help form and refine the Wish and help overcome any objections before being promoted. After that simple thumbs up are quick to add by voting.

Imagine nobody laughing at a comedian or just giving a thumbs up when he was actually good. Bad crowd would be a valid opinion but more importantly they would be justified in being hesitant to play the gig again.

It's not hard to be kind and supportive.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Gary_G »

Just my two cents...

It's likely that people don't review the the Wishlist Requests on a regular basis, unless they have been involved in a thread that led to the request AND the requestor has noted that the Wishlist request has been entered on the original thread. So; perhaps the original thread should somehow visually highlight that the request has been made.

Another possible way to encourage viewing Wishlist Requests is to place a link on the banner that contains links to the various sections, rather than in a pulldown menu.

Sometimes people might hesitate to say anything, as they feel that the discussions require a more intimate knowledge of the history and design of FH. I would suggest that even those people should at least consider voicing support for a feature. This encourages those who are in a position to contribute. All that is needed is a brief. "I'd find this useful."
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Emoji/emoticons should never be used as a replacement for text according to accessibility guidelines.

That aside, I'd like to see expressions of support explain why a feature would be useful -- those are far more likely to influence CP's thinking.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by mjashby »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 11 Nov 2023 14:38 ... I'd like to see expressions of support explain why a feature would be useful -- those are far more likely to influence CP's thinking.
I fully endorse the above comment and strongly suspect that the Family Historian development designer is far more likely to be influenced by the Wish List requests that can readily be seen to offer clear and obvious benefits to a majority of existing users and, of course, be attractive to potential new users, rather than those Wish List items that may attract a more limited interest, i.e. the potential of high positive impact over 'nice to have' is what attracts both first-time purchasers and upgraders.

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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by tatewise »

As far as CP are concerned are we in danger of confusing the New Wish List Request forum where users discuss proposals and the Wish List itself where users Vote and is probably where CP focus.

IMO the discussion here is primarily focussing on the forum and gathering feedback from interested users to decide whether it even makes it onto the Wish List.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 11 Nov 2023 14:38 Emoji/emoticons should never be used as a replacement for text according to accessibility guidelines.

That aside, I'd like to see expressions of support explain why a feature would be useful -- those are far more likely to influence CP's thinking.
I agree and above all Wishes need to be credible and well framed in line with the opening post.

Those with no opinion one way or other should click next.

Those who see merit and benefit should comment in support of the contribution.

After being a commenter they should get a notification of the comment if/when the item gets promoted to the wish list, they should reaffirm their support by voting then before forgetting.

Not all New Wish List items will make it to the Wish List. Over my career I have seen many people suggesting a change to suit the way they prefer to work rather than embrace the way others have been doing it for years.

Those who have been working the same way from the early days should not be upset by have their existing workflow forced to change. Those users should be free to continue as they are and ignore improvements if they so choose.

It's repeatedly stated there are many ways to achieve results in FH, I'm constantly learning and happy to do so through discussion.

There are also many ways FH can be improved and made more user friendly. Such observations often come from fresh eyed new or trial users.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

tatewise wrote: 11 Nov 2023 15:50 As far as CP are concerned are we in danger of confusing the New Wish List Request forum where users discuss proposals and the Wish List itself where users Vote and is probably where CP focus.

IMO the discussion here is primarily focussing on the forum and gathering feedback from interested users to decide whether it even makes it onto the Wish List.
No, we're not confusing the two -- because items on the Wish List include a link back to the discussions here, which we presumably expect to be followed because the discussions here add context?
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

Are CP going to always wade through many the posts of discussion/disagreement before we reached a consensus? I think probably not.

Far better would be to encourage people to add comments to the wish list item itself when voting saying why they would like it implemented.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

jelv wrote: 11 Nov 2023 17:09 Are CP going to always wade through many the posts of discussion/disagreement before we reached a consensus? I think probably not.
Well, the Wish List entry is always a distillation of discussions here. So they might want more detail about people's thinking, about the problems we discussed, or indeed the technical implementation suggestions some of us keep on making. They won't want to wade through every discussion, but they might want to look at some.
Far better would be to encourage people to add comments to the wish list item itself when voting saying why they would like it implemented.
It's hard enough to get people to visit the Wish List to vote.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Mark1834 »

IMO, the final Wish List item should be as succinct as possible, not duplicating discussion here. It's there to get CP's attention. Some ideas will be ruled out straight away. Hopefully, others will spark a "that's an interesting idea..." thought, and they follow the link to see the context and discussion.

It's only the dozen or so usual suspects who seem to make most of the comments here, so hopefully we can arrive at a consensus, or at least a clear majority view.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

jelv wrote: 11 Nov 2023 17:09 Far better would be to encourage people to add comments to the wish list item itself when voting saying why they would like it implemented.
Discussion threads have the distinct advantage of possible images which may be that of a feature already in another software package or a mock up visualization by the submitter, the Wish List lacks this.

Driving interested parties to add their vote as a final action is important, in future I will add the final discussion comment as;

Wish List entry xxx has been created, please add your vote before forgetting.

or some similar prompt and encourage others to do the same.
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