* Wish List guidance and rules

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Gary_G
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Gary_G »

Gary_G wrote: 11 Nov 2023 14:04 It's likely that people don't review the the Wishlist Requests on a regular basis, unless they have been involved in a thread that led to the request AND the requestor has noted that the Wishlist request has been entered on the original thread. So; perhaps the original thread should somehow visually highlight that the request has been made.
Vyger;

Thank you for supporting the above idea with the following. I think it will make a difference.
Driving interested parties to add their vote as a final action is important, in future I will add the final discussion comment as;

Wish List entry xxx has been created, please add your vote before forgetting.

or some similar prompt and encourage others to do the same.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Gary_G wrote: 11 Nov 2023 18:09
Gary_G wrote: 11 Nov 2023 14:04 It's likely that people don't review the the Wishlist Requests on a regular basis, unless they have been involved in a thread that led to the request AND the requestor has noted that the Wishlist request has been entered on the original thread. So; perhaps the original thread should somehow visually highlight that the request has been made.
Vyger;

Thank you for supporting the above idea with the following. I think it will make a difference.
Driving interested parties to add their vote as a final action is important, in future I will add the final discussion comment as;

Wish List entry xxx has been created, please add your vote before forgetting.

or some similar prompt and encourage others to do the same.
Something like:
tatewise wrote: 24 Oct 2023 11:13 Wish List Ref 620 Facts tab Date column custom Format has been created for you to Vote on.
perhaps.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

Something like:
tatewise wrote: 24 Oct 2023 11:13 Wish List Ref 620 Facts tab Date column custom Format has been created for you to Vote on.
perhaps.
The text within link just needs to be more of a prompt in my opinion, rather than just an informative statement. As long as it fits that criteria then it's fit for purpose.

I have been wondering if "Notify me whan a reply is posted" is a default setting for new users joining FHUG?
Last edited by tatewise on 11 Nov 2023 22:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed quote tag
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Vyger wrote: 11 Nov 2023 19:53
I have been wondering if "Notify me whan a reply is posted" is a default setting for new users joining FHUG?
No, and it shouldnt be without a consent process. FHUG does not send any unrequestdd email - they are all opt in.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Or do you mean the notification alert you see top right? If so that relies on somebody logging in which for some users is probably onky something they do if they have a question to ask.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

I mean this one.

notify.PNG
notify.PNG (6.6 KiB) Viewed 1237 times

Without it contributors don't get notification of updates to the posts they contribute to which is unfortunate in my view.

Sometimes I turn off notifications on various platforms when discussions get out of control but I have a general interest in any discussion I contribute to.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by tatewise »

When I contact new OP users to tell them they have a reply, it is quite common for them to say they expected to be notified about the reply as that is what happens on other forums they use.
Is there any way this can be improved for new users?
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

To save everyone repeating themselves: Notify me upon replies option (17598).

Nothing has changed since then.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 12 Nov 2023 10:16 To save everyone repeating themselves: Notify me upon replies option (17598).

Nothing has changed since then.
Thank you for that, essentially that was before my time, proved interesting reading and disappointing nothing has changed in three years

GDPR is not an issue here, if I send you a mail I am inviting a response, if I comment on a topic I am also including myself in the communication. On Facebook I often need to turn notifications OFF when commenting on trivial topics gets out of control, receiving notifications, and repeated notifications, is the default.

In my view posting or commenting on a thread should automatically subscribe you to replies on that topic, having read the previous discussion I am not sure if that is now possible.

I read ALL of the notification email I received this morning, I say ALL as my muscle memory has become accustomed to clicking link #2 for some reason, really I should be clicking link #1

Assuming nothing else can be done to opt people in, and I would hope something could, then perhaps an associated discussion could help simplify the notification email? The existing single shot notification setting is good and certainly should not promote a feeling of spam but perhaps the Unsubscribe option should be more visible to satisfy those who have moved on? I know it's overkill :roll:

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The fact no more emails will follow until one visits is good but are four links really necessary? until this morning I never really looked into them all :roll:

The Auto Opt In would be ideal but in addition perhaps this email should be simplified to View the Latest Posts and Unsubscribe options, people really do skim in our modern world so it's important to be as concise as possible.

The weekly summary report from Jane is also welcome and I do try and set aside time to review what has been happening but again the user must manually subscribe if I am correct.

It's all about building traffic and the more the merrier in my opinion.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Mark1834 »

It's a Control Panel option, so appears to be easy to enable replies if that's what the user wants. Personally, I'm perfectly happy with off by default.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Vyger wrote: 12 Nov 2023 15:31 GDPR is not an issue here, if I send you a mail I am inviting a response, if I comment on a topic I am also including myself in the communication. On Facebook I often need to turn notifications OFF when commenting on trivial topics gets out of control, receiving notifications, and repeated notifications, is the default.
I've never thought GDPR is an issue. In my understanding it's a PECR issue which includes the requirement for active opt-in to emails (especially in non-commercial contexts where there is no initial purchase involved).

No impact on Notifications appearing when people log on, either way, but if they're logging on to check for notifications, will they not go look at their query anyway? If they don't log on, I can't make them see notifications.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by BillH »

I hate being automatically opted into anything. If I want to be involved, I should have to opt in. There are way too many places where I get opted in automatically, even though I don't want to be.

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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

Don't know if this is possible, but would it be possible to change the order of this?
notify.PNG
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Might it be more likely to be seen if Notify me when a reply is posted was the first option?
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

BillH wrote: 12 Nov 2023 16:40 I hate being automatically opted into anything. If I want to be involved, I should have to opt in. There are way too many places where I get opted in automatically, even though I don't want to be.

Bill
Bill, are you not happy to be opted into a discussion notification when you choose to comment on that discussion?

There is always the option on the notification email to opt out if/when said discussion has moved beyond your interest. Also there will be no repeat notification of you decide not to visit the thread.

It seems the problem is lack of engagement and how more engagement can be encouraged. I know personally I welcome reply notifications otherwise I would miss or forget many partipation updates.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Gary_G »

If one posts in a thread, doing so implies one has some interest in the discussion. As such; implicitly opting-in makes sense. If one later decides that the discussion is not interesting, it is easy to unsubscribe.

[From a strictly humorous perspective; commenting and not following up smacks of "hit-and-run". :D ]
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by jelv »

It's a shame the automatic notifications can't differentiate between starting a topic and replying to a topic. I can't think of a good reason why someone starting a topic wouldn't want to be notified of replies, but I can see why someone might not be that bothered about responses to a topic they didn't start.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Gary_G wrote: 12 Nov 2023 18:54 If one posts in a thread, doing so implies one has some interest in the discussion. As such; implicitly opting-in makes sense. If one later decides that the discussion is not interesting, it is easy to unsubscribe.

[From a strictly humorous perspective; commenting and not following up smacks of "hit-and-run". :D ]
Somebody may wish to participate in a discussion at their own pace, without receiving emails about it.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Gary_G »

Just something to think about...

This discussion is one in which, I think, there truly is likely no correct answer. I suspect one's preferences have a lot to do with when and where one was raised and may be overridden by the current norms and laws in the area in which one lives.

Here, in Canada (and years ago), it used to be that there was no such thing as automatic subscription renewal...until the internet caused us to increasingly interact with international companies that are governed by different laws. In Canada, now, just establishing communications with a company is an implicit consent for them to contact you (pretty-much for whatever reason they want, it seems).

My point is that the moderators have a responsibility for the management of the board. I may be unaware of the current legal and public-relations implications to this decision wrt. FHUG. So; for my part, I'll accept whichever path those responsible for the board choose to take.

Times have changed and this isn't "the hill I want to die on"...
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Vyger »

jelv wrote: 12 Nov 2023 18:59 I can't think of a good reason why someone starting a topic wouldn't want to be notified of replies, but I can see why someone might not be that bothered about responses to a topic they didn't start.
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 12 Nov 2023 19:10 Somebody may wish to participate in a discussion at their own pace, without receiving emails about it.
And yet in both the above scenarios they only need to resist the temptation to view the thread after the first notification email, end of.

I believe that is a very good compromise between "nobody told me" and "you're spamming me" so much so it would be difficult to agree a better compromise.

I like the hit and run analogy.
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by AdrianBruce »

jelv wrote: 12 Nov 2023 18:59... I can't think of a good reason why someone starting a topic wouldn't want to be notified of replies ...
I can - I just don't work like that. I always logon to FHUG every day (well, Christmas Day aside) and my link takes me straight to the list of unread topics. So I really don't want notifications, especially appearing at odd times of the day, and would mutter if I had to switch any default notifications off.

I do wonder how many people work like me - after all, I think that's the difference between mailing lists and forums. Notifications have always felt like treating a forum as if it were a mailing list.

Or am I just a saddo for going to the FHUG every day? ;)
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by BillH »

Vyger wrote: 12 Nov 2023 18:50 Bill, are you not happy to be opted into a discussion notification when you choose to comment on that discussion?
No. If I want to get a notification then I opt-in. I have often made a comment on FHUG and don't really care to
continue following the topic. The need to opt-out for so many things in today's society has made me completely opposed to automatic opt-ins.
There is always the option on the notification email to opt out if/when said discussion has moved beyond your interest. Also there will be no repeat notification of you decide not to visit the thread.
I would turn this around and say that there is always the option to opt-in if that is what you want.
It seems the problem is lack of engagement and how more engagement can be encouraged. I know personally I welcome reply notifications otherwise I would miss or forget many partipation updates.
I visit the forums often and can easily tell if there is anything new posted to any topics I'm interested in.

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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by LornaCraig »

AdrianBruce wrote: 12 Nov 2023 21:11 Notifications have always felt like treating a forum as if it were a mailing list.
A point well made.
Or am I just a saddo for going to the FHUG every day? ;)
You're in quite a big club :D
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by BillH »

AdrianBruce wrote: 12 Nov 2023 21:11
I can - I just don't work like that. I always logon to FHUG every day (well, Christmas Day aside) and my link takes me straight to the list of unread topics. So I really don't want notifications, especially appearing at odd times of the day, and would mutter if I had to switch any default notifications off.

I do wonder how many people work like me - after all, I think that's the difference between mailing lists and forums. Notifications have always felt like treating a forum as if it were a mailing list.

Or am I just a saddo for going to the FHUG every day? ;)
You work like me except I visit more than once a day. I really don't want any notifications either. If you are a saddo, than I must be a saddo also. :)
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Mark1834 »

AdrianBruce wrote: 12 Nov 2023 21:11Notifications have always felt like treating a forum as if it were a mailing list.
Indeed - I turn Groups.io mail off as I want it to behave like a forum - I control the interaction, and if I’ve better things to do at the time, it doesn’t nag me…
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Re: For discussion: Wish List guidance and rules

Post by Woodg »

AdrianBruce wrote: 12 Nov 2023 21:11
Or am I just a saddo for going to the FHUG every day? ;)
Multiple times a day for me, direct to Home page where I can see all unread posts, but also any news, like a new FH update. I'll happily join the saddo club - however I also check on Christmas Day (no children for me) so maybe I'm in the saddo-ier club.
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