* Unknown Relations
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- Famous
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Unknown Relations
I have like probably most people a lot of unknown named ancestors/relations. When I go to Individual records listing, the Unknown's show as first in the list. How can they be relegated to either the bottom of the list or at U?
- tatewise
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Re: Unknown Relations
The easiest solution is to give them the Surname Z, i.e. enter /Z/ in their Name: box.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
Re: Unknown Relations
When I have an unknown, like a wife of John Brown, I enter her as “?? /Brown Nee ??/“, that way she sorts with the other Browns.Also if you click or Alt-click on any column heading, you can sort them in the order/reverse order of that column.
Mike Loney
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- Mark1834
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Re: Unknown Relations
When FH sorts data, it considers blank values as lower than any defined value. Blanks are therefore at the top when sorting in ascending order but at the bottom when sorting in descending order.
There are more sophisticated ways of defining a sort in other software. For example, Excel will always put missing values at the bottom (but not null values that result from a calculation). For "proper" databases, the treatment of null data varies by implementation, as it is not defined in the SQL ORDER BY statement, and not all implementations support the later NULLS FIRST/LAST qualifier.
Personally, I would like to see an option in FH to always place null data at the end of a sorted list, but it would be a new program feature that would need a New Wish List Request. I strongly dislike entering false data just to overcome a software limitation.
There are more sophisticated ways of defining a sort in other software. For example, Excel will always put missing values at the bottom (but not null values that result from a calculation). For "proper" databases, the treatment of null data varies by implementation, as it is not defined in the SQL ORDER BY statement, and not all implementations support the later NULLS FIRST/LAST qualifier.
Personally, I would like to see an option in FH to always place null data at the end of a sorted list, but it would be a new program feature that would need a New Wish List Request. I strongly dislike entering false data just to overcome a software limitation.
Mark Draper
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Re: Unknown Relations
That wouldn't always work - in my old day job, our small statistics group of four people had two with the initials PZ (Zemroch and Zyman)
Mark Draper
- tatewise
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Re: Unknown Relations
I think John is talking about completely blank names that are listed as [unamed person] which is why he suggested sorting amongst the U surnames.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Unknown Relations
True, but easily solved by using /ZZ/ which I agree is not ideal but the simplest that I can think of other than using the Alt key reverse sort, which unfortunately cannot be customised. Has anyone got a better idea?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Unknown Relations
New Wish List Request - a Tools > Preferences > General option to "always place null data at the end of sorted lists throughout FH". Easy to define, so onto the list for voting and consideration by CP...
Mark Draper
Re: Unknown Relations
I realise that Mike, but was simply suggesting that they are rarely truly unknown, without a link somewhere (Like the wife of John Brown). I’m sure a suitable and relevant name can be thought up. If not, then /ZZ/ would fit the bill
BTW when I first started adding ‘unknown’ wives, I used ‘?? /??/‘, but quickly realised, like OP, that they
1. all sorted together and
2. I couldn’t easily identify who was who.
Hence my use of husbands surname as part of their surname.
The added bonus is that by searching for ‘Nee ??’, I can quickly identify which marriages still need to be found.
Mike Loney
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- Robert Jacobs
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Re: Unknown Relations
I've found a technique for unknown maiden names which seems to work well with FH. I use the husband's surname enclosed in brackets, thus: [Cooper]. I add "Mrs." as the name prefix which clarifies the relationship in reports.
The bracketed names sort at the beginning of the list in the project window and serve as a useful (sometimes reproachful) reminder of what still needs to be done.
Robert
The bracketed names sort at the beginning of the list in the project window and serve as a useful (sometimes reproachful) reminder of what still needs to be done.
Robert
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Re: Unknown Relations
Interesting replies. Preferred Robert Jacobs method but without the brackets.
Re: Unknown Relations
Where I have a wife and I don't know the maiden name I also use the husbands name in square brackets.
If I know the maiden name but not the first name (e.g. I've found the mother's surname from a child's birth registration in the GRO index) I use [x].
If I know the maiden name but not the first name (e.g. I've found the mother's surname from a child's birth registration in the GRO index) I use [x].
John Elvin
- trevorrix
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Re: Unknown Relations
I would have thought that the easiest solution would be to leave the field/information blank when something is unknown. That's what I do.
Trevor Rix
- ColeValleyGirl
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Re: Unknown Relations
I agree with Trevor on this -- if I don't know somebody's name, I'll leave it blank.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
ColeValleyGirl's family history
Re: Unknown Relations
Blank is fine in the focus window and diagrams where you can see the context in which the individual exists. But I find blank hopeless in lists like the records window, query and plugin result lists. Having the name in brackets makes it clear it's not their actual name, but does give an indication of where they fit in the tree.
John Elvin
- LornaCraig
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Re: Unknown Relations
That's what the OP has previously been doing, but his problem is that all the [unamed person] records are sorted at the top in the Records Window (in ascending order sort) and he wants a way to move them to the bottom, or at least somewhere else, while retaining the ascending alphabetical order.ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑22 Feb 2023 11:23 I agree with Trevor on this -- if I don't know somebody's name, I'll leave it blank.
Hence Mark's suggestion above :
New Wish List Request - a Tools > Preferences > General option to "always place null data at the end of sorted lists throughout FH". Easy to define, so onto the list for voting and consideration by CP...
Lorna
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Re: Unknown Relations
In the meantime, [unnamed persons] sort to the bottom if you Sort the column Descending.
Helen Wright
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Re: Unknown Relations
IN records list and queries, I always include a column for the first couple of spouses and the family as a child to give context.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
ColeValleyGirl's family history
Re: Unknown Relations
Going back to the original enquiry, adding a custom column to the individual records window with the expression
would give a column that can be sorted to put the unknowns to the bottom.
Using my method of putting the surname in [ ], this expression works:
Code: Select all
=TextIf(Exists(%INDI.NAME%),%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%,"ZZZ")
Using my method of putting the surname in [ ], this expression works:
Code: Select all
=TextIf(LeftText(%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%,1,"") = "[",Text("ZZZ" . %INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%),%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%)
John Elvin
Re: Unknown Relations
I tend to leave unknown peoples' name entries blank, but if I have a first name, say of someone's wife, I put their married name in brackets, i.e. [Smith]. As I tend to work from the Individuals tab anyway, all unkowns appear first followed by the names in [ ] as a reminder that there's more work needed there.
- tatewise
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Re: Unknown Relations
Mark, I cannot find a New Wish List Request posting for this. Has it slipped through the net?
I think you are proposing that null data setting applies regardless of whether sorting is Ascending or Descending.
i.e. It is absolute and not simply a change to the sort order rules which would put null last for Ascending but first for Descending.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
- Mark1834
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Re: Unknown Relations
Yes, I thought we had defined it already, but I've added the proposal to the New Wish Lists thread. I think this one is easy to define, so doesn't need overcomplicating.
Mark Draper
Re: Unknown Relations
Is there currently a workaround to sort individual records in the records window so that those with a blank Ahnentafel number (or surname) are at the bottom? I tried playing around with a custom column for sorting purposes based on the below, but couldn't get it to work reliably...
jelv wrote: ↑22 Feb 2023 12:58 Going back to the original enquiry, adding a custom column to the individual records window with the expression
would give a column that can be sorted to put the unknowns to the bottom.Code: Select all
=TextIf(Exists(%INDI.NAME%),%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%,"ZZZ")
Using my method of putting the surname in [ ], this expression works:
Code: Select all
=TextIf(LeftText(%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%,1,"") = "[",Text("ZZZ" . %INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%),%INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST%)
Sarah Bell – Australia
Re: Unknown Relations
A horizontal ellipsis … in the surname field should sort at the bottom for all languages is using UTF-8.
… as one character not … as 3 full stop!
… as one character not … as 3 full stop!
- tatewise
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Re: Unknown Relations
The following Column Expressions should work.
To sort names such that those without a surname are last with an ellipsis substituted:
=TextIf( %INDI.NAME:SURNAME% = "", Text( "…, " . %INDI.NAME% ), %INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST% )
i.e. If the Surname does not exist then put "…, " before the Name otherwise use the Surname_First qualifier.
To sort Ahnentafel numbers such that those without a value are last:
=NumberIf( AhnentafelNumber(FileRoot(),%INDI%,1) > 0, AhnentafelNumber(FileRoot(),%INDI%,1), 99999 )
i.e. If the Ahnentafel number exists then use it otherwise substitute 99999.
The substitution has to be a large number in order to retain the numerical sorting of Ahnentafel numbers.
If you try and use text then the Ahnentafel numbers do not sort correctly.
To sort names such that those without a surname are last with an ellipsis substituted:
=TextIf( %INDI.NAME:SURNAME% = "", Text( "…, " . %INDI.NAME% ), %INDI.NAME:SURNAME_FIRST% )
i.e. If the Surname does not exist then put "…, " before the Name otherwise use the Surname_First qualifier.
To sort Ahnentafel numbers such that those without a value are last:
=NumberIf( AhnentafelNumber(FileRoot(),%INDI%,1) > 0, AhnentafelNumber(FileRoot(),%INDI%,1), 99999 )
i.e. If the Ahnentafel number exists then use it otherwise substitute 99999.
The substitution has to be a large number in order to retain the numerical sorting of Ahnentafel numbers.
If you try and use text then the Ahnentafel numbers do not sort correctly.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry