* Potential Probate Plugin

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Normie
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Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Normie »

I have been writing a plugin to record information from the probate record index in a simple one stage operation.
Taking the source text from the probate index:
Probate.jpg
Probate.jpg (50.51 KiB) Viewed 2899 times
This information is recorded in a dialog form:
Dialog.jpg
Dialog.jpg (131.03 KiB) Viewed 2899 times
Which then raises the appropriate probate, death and residence facts/ events and links to a generated source/citation record:
Pollard.jpg
Pollard.jpg (243.94 KiB) Viewed 2899 times
continued..
Norman Martin
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Normie
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Normie »

continued:
The contents of the dialog form are added to the Text from Source in the source record:
Source Text.jpg
Source Text.jpg (203.08 KiB) Viewed 2897 times
The source code is attached;

Is this of any interest to others?

Norman
Attachments
Probate Plugin Code.txt
Plugin source code
(9.01 KiB) Downloaded 97 times
Norman Martin
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tatewise
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by tatewise »

Initial comments.
Please attach the fh_lua file from the C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian\Plugins\ folder, not a txt file.
In the Plugin editor window, use Edit > Insert Script Header (or Outline) to obtain the recommended header.
e.g. The Type: must be Standard to be a valid Plugin.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Normie
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Normie »

Have replaced script header, hopefully correctly.

Attached is the code file.
Attachments

[The extension fh_lua has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

Norman Martin
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Woodg
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Woodg »

I'm not ready for this yet - still moving from my old software, but it seems like something I will use. Thanks for contributing to the FH "system".

Glenn
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Mark1834
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Mark1834 »

Excellent to see new plugin authors sharing their work with the community, but how does this relate to Ancestral Sources or Data Entry Assistants? Is it a third way of adding structured source data?
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Normie
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Normie »

My background was in developing computer software to simplify data entry. The inspiration comes from Ancestral Sources.

There isn't a 'probate' option in Ancestral Sources, or one in the plugin store, so I thought maybe a plug in could help me. Why not a Data Entry Assistant; that seems to rely on creating a prepared citation first and this cuts out that process.

Whilst this plugin is a 'work in progress', it works for me and has the potential to be modified relatively easily for different requirements.
Norman Martin
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by tatewise »

I don't think AS handles Probate facts and sources.

This type of Standard Plugin combines the Source Preparation process and the DEA Plugin into one sequence of dialogues, but it might be worth discussing the pros and cons of the two approaches.
It may be that the Standard Plugin is more constrained to say just Method 1 'splitter' Generic Source Citations, whereas the Source Preparation with DEA supports more alternative styles such as Method 1 & 2 and Generic & Templated Sources.
Which one involves fewer 'clicks' is not so clear.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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David2416
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David2416 »

Hi Normie,

Nice, I have given it a run on the Sample Project, and it certainly works well.

One problem - if I just select a Repository and click OK two Sources are created - see the two sources timed 10:15 below:
Screenshot 2022-10-29 101638.jpg

I could use it myself with a few amendments to fit my Source Title formatting. (I have tried to avoid writing plugins as I used to program a lot and want to do Family History rather than spend time writing plugins - though I'm getting tempted. Thank you!)

Some Observations: Once a Repository is selected, OK is activated and a Probate Fact and attached Source is created if OK is clicked with no further input which is not a problem. Did you intend to provide a list of Places Names for Death Place and Residence Place?
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Mark1834
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Mark1834 »

It looks an interesting approach. I've certainly got plenty of previous form in developing alternate solutions in response to perceived weaknesses and shortcomings in what's already available ( ;)), so I think it is well worth pursuing this to see where it leads.
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Normie
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Normie »

David

I am not sure why 2 sources were created. Because the plugin is designed for my needs, I know what fields I need to complete to get it working as I want it. There is no validation at this stage, so inevitably there may be bugs.

There should 'know' all the places so that when you type into the Death and Residence places it attempts to complete the place name.

At this stage, the plugin meets my needs. Is it worth putting in extra effort to make it more generally available?

Norman
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David2416
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David2416 »

Hi Normie,

Yes understood, exactly what I would do.

I tested on the Sample project before letting loose on real projects. but I see that the Places do indeed fill, I happened to choose non-existent places. I expect the duplicate source was because I was entering very little data, quite deliberately trying to break it. I might adapt to format the source title differently, but I could use as is. I like it - thank you

I can't answer your question; but I like the simple approach to creating a generic method 1 source. I imagine it could be used to create different fact and source types.
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David Potter
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David Potter »

Thank you for this. Much appreciated.
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ississi
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by ississi »

Ooh, yes please!
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Normie
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by Normie »

Following from what Mike Tate said earlier:

"This type of Standard Plugin combines the Source Preparation process and the DEA Plugin into one sequence of dialogues, but it might be worth discussing the pros and cons of the two approaches."

considering to offer as a plugin in the plugin store is, at best premature.

I am of course content that others take the source code and adapt it to their own needs.

In the meantime, I am expanding the plugin, to handle others events and fix any bugs found in it. I have already added in the birth event, based on the generic text produced by Ancestral Sources.

I am not sure whether, or how, to share this code as I develop this for my own use. Any opinions on this would be welcomed.
Norman Martin
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fhtess65
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by fhtess65 »

I am definitely interested...thanks for working on this :)
---
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David2416
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David2416 »

I have been using this as a self-training exercise to do some plugin writing. So far, I have partially converted to how I recorded data. Things I am still working on; are to convert the weblink to an active link, add a media record to the source and add linked persons as witnesses. (All quite easily done by amending the created source but would be nice to do in one pass.) My output so far is:
input.jpg
Output.jpg
text from source.jpg
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David2416
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David2416 »

notes.jpg
Many thanks to Normie for your work which prompted this.
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brianlummis
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by brianlummis »

Like some others I have been thinking that this "standard" sort of information could well be suitable for either a plugin or an addition to Ancestral Sources. Unfortunately, my capabilities for this are practically zero!

Without wanting to make it more complex, I currently use the following 5 facts to record the so-called Probate information: -

Death - for the date and place of death.
Residence - as this can differ from the place of death
Probate - date and place granted plus witnesses i.e., Executor/Executrix
Letters of Administration - (normally where there is no will) date and place granted plus witness i.e., Administrator/Administratrix
Value of Estate - value of effects.

For me that covers all the information that is in the source which is transcribed in the Text for Source as in the example above from David.
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johnmorrisoniom
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by johnmorrisoniom »

I actually use AS to record the probate calendar details via the death event system and then tweak the source details afterwards
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NickWalker
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by NickWalker »

Building in support for Probate and also Gravestones/MIs into AS has been on my long list for many years now. The reason why I've put off working on it is that the information recorded isn't as structured as the other source types in AS.

For example, a Will can contain information about brothers, sisters, children, parents, aunts, uncles, etc. of the deceased. It can tell you the names of all these people, their occupations, where they lived, the names of their spouses. And then it would be difficult to have any auto-text transcriptions, other than a generic overview. So I'd expect really that it would just be a expandable list of people mentioned with places to record their occupations, residence, etc. together with information about the deceased person, when they died and so on (with fields similar to those mentioned elsewhere in this thread).

Gravestones are much the same really (but simpler) in that they can refer to a number of people and not always people who have died or are buried there, e.g. "Bill Smith beloved husband of Alice" (the gravestone might be the first time I'm aware he had a wife called Alice) and they sometimes mention dates and place of birth. ages, occupations, etc. and again the auto-text wouldn't necessarily be so helpful.

I have fleshed out some designs for how I might do that in the past, but it looks like what I'd want to do is a bit more extensive than the ideas here so perhaps I'm over-engineering it :)
Nick Walker
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https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
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johnmorrisoniom
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by johnmorrisoniom »

Wills are one thing, and can as you say, be long rambling documents.
Probate Calendar entries tend to be fairly well structured and consistent.

This is my auto text for using a death entry for probate:

{KEYPERSON.SN.CAPS} {KEYPERSON.GN} of {KEYPERSON.RESIDENCE.ADDRESS}, {KEYPERSON.RESIDENCE.PLACE.SHORT} died {DATE} at {ADDR} {PLACE} Probate {REF} {DATEREGISTERED.DAY} {DATEREGISTERED.MONTH.FULL} to {REGISTRAR}. Effects {OTHER}

The gives me a source with correct source text and image attached
I then manually add the probate Fact (DATEREGISTERED)

I could probably use a burial entry instead, and then change the Burial fact to the probate fact using a plugin..
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David2416
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David2416 »

This is the way I handle the probate of a complex will
facts.jpg
witnesses.jpg

I use witnesses similarly for headstones/gravemarkers, obituaries, newspaper reports of so forth

My sources then look something like this:
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David2416
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by David2416 »

citation.jpg
notes - where I found it.jpg
related media.jpg
I find this approach works with some adaptation works for most things.

In the first screen shot it can be seen where Margery has a witness role in other probate events.
Last edited by David2416 on 03 Nov 2022 15:14, edited 1 time in total.
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NickWalker
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Re: Potential Probate Plugin

Post by NickWalker »

But presumably if the will mentioned things like occupations or residences for any of these 'witnesses' you would be creating facts for those too and linking them to the source. Again it's this very wide variety of ways that people potentially want to deal with their wills/probate that has put me off tackling it so far. But this is all very useful homework for me to find out how others are doing it.
Nick Walker
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https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
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