* Proxy boxes?

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Parky
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Proxy boxes?

Post by Parky » 16 Mar 2021 09:58

I have Family Historian6 and have transferred a chart by pdf. I have entered a lot of additional data and saved a chart on FH. I have delayed updating to FH7 until I complete the exercise of updating the chart which I then intend to have commercially printed and given to relatives.
I have an esthetic concern in that FH is drawing duplicate boxes (Proxy box?) and linking them with long dotted lines. I assume FH is doing this to space out the tree on the diagram. For example, a first sibling is pushed beyond the last sibling. There are about 4 of these duplication lines. I can remove one of the pairs of boxes but the dotted lines remain. I have tried "Re-order of out of sequence data" on the Tools menu to show the siblings in the correct order but this does nothing.
Also, one of these "misplaced" duplicate boxes shows a second wife as the first wife but has a "2" against the second wife's name box.
I am sure I am missing something obvious but as I am a novice to FH6 I would appreciate any guidance.
Many thanks.
Parky

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tatewise
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by tatewise » 16 Mar 2021 10:33

Hi Parky,
Proxy boxes are used when the person is a Sibling in one family group and a Spouse in another family group, and it would be difficult to draw a tidy Diagram with only one box. It is not just to "space out the tree".
So the Proxy box is drawn in its correct position among the Siblings and connected by a dotted line to the standard box next to their Spouse and Children.

The long dotted lines are evidence that it would difficult to draw a tidy Diagram with one box.
If that line was dramatically shortened, imagine where the Spouses & Children would be drawn.
That is emphasised if both Spouses have Proxy boxes and it would be impossible to shorten both dotted lines.

You say the Proxy box of "a first sibling is pushed beyond the last sibling".
The Diagram will show the Siblings (including Proxy boxes) in the order they appear in your Project database.
If the boxes are in the 'wrong' order, that is because your database has them in the wrong order.
From the Diagram, open the Property Box of one of the parents and check the order of the Children at the bottom.
Using Tools > Re-order of Out-of-Sequence Data... should correct their order but only if they have Birth/Baptism Dates.
Otherwise, you must move them using the small black arrow buttons, which if you deliberately choose the 'wrong' order sometimes can avoid the Proxy box.

If the Diagram has put a 2 against the 2nd Wife then that is correct.
The position of the 1st Wife depends on the Diagram > Options you have chosen.

It might help us understand the problems if you could attach a screenshot of that part of the Diagram.
See FHUG Knowledge Base Forum Usage Tips Attachments for advice.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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LornaCraig
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by LornaCraig » 16 Mar 2021 12:05

If you don't want the duplicate boxes to be displayed, use Diagram>Options>Proxies tab and select Never show proxy boxes. (Incidentally if you click the Help button in that tab The Help file explains the purpose of the boxes and the options you can select from.)

However even when the proxy boxes are hidden you will see that in an All Relatives diagram there will still be a dotted line leading from the ancestor's box back to the position where the ancestor fits beside his/her siblings. You will notice that it is only the horizontal section of the line that is dotted. The vertical section, immediately below the individual's parents, is solid. I think the reason why the horizontal lines are dotted is to distinguish them from other horizontal lines which run above rows of siblings. The dotted lines often have to cross over several vertical lines (lines which descend from siblings to the siblings' children) and if all the lines were solid it would not be obvious that they are just crossing over, rather than making actual intersections with the vertical lines.

However, if you really want the crossing lines to be solid you can use Diagram Options > Lines tab and set Crossing Lines to be solid.
Lorna

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Parky
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by Parky » 16 Mar 2021 15:41

Thank Mike & Lorna for your constructive comments.
However, I am a little worried and confused that I have previously attempted what you have suggested. I have gone to the Tools menu and "Re-ordered out of sequence data" but nothing appears to alter. Also, my mother died young and my father subsequently re-married. I have entered the marriages in date order but my step-mother appears first on the chart with a "2" against her. I have selected (ticked) items to be in order but without luck. My grandfather appears to the right-hand side of the chart with an extensive dotted line to his sibling position, to the left. I can't get rid of the dotted lines (only alter the size of the dots) and still would like to have him in sibling order with his descendants beneath.
I have selected "Never show proxy boxes", but of course the dotted lines still appear.
I will try a Screenshot as suggested and hope this helps.
Thanks again.
Parky

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tatewise
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by tatewise » 16 Mar 2021 16:03

Parky, I don't think you have fully understood everything we have said.

Tools > Re-order of Out-of-Sequence Data... will correct the order of siblings only if they have Birth/Baptism Dates.
Otherwise, you must move them manually in the Property Box.

Your step-mother shown with a 2 is correct as she was your father's 2nd wife.
Have you tried Diagram > Options > General tab Spouse layout options: All spouses on the right.

As Lorna said use Diagram > Options > Lines tab and set Crossing Lines to be Solid to eliminate dotted lines.

A Diagram screenshot would help together with screenshots of a Property Box showing your grandfather with his siblings and your father's Property Box showing his Spouses. You can redact what you don't want to make public.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Parky
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by Parky » 17 Mar 2021 09:48

Thank you Tatewise,

I can assure you I am doing my best at this end to follow the help offered.

I confirm all siblings are listed in order with their dates of birth but the chart on screen shows my grandfather with a dotted line from his correct position with siblings that extends to the far right of the chart. This means that my second cousins and I are a distance apart from each other on the chart - I am simply trying to avoid this and want siblings shown together.

As for my step-mother I can remove "number out of sequence spouces" but what ever Diagram Options I select, "2nd spouse on the right" or "all spouses on the right" when I select OK I get a Careful message, I continue but nothing appears to alter with my step-mother on the left of my father and my mother on the right which to me is the wrong order. I do have their wedding dates appearing but this doesnt alter the order.

I will try a screen shot if this helps but this may take me a couple of days.
Parky

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LornaCraig
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by LornaCraig » 17 Mar 2021 11:41

The features you are describing are inevitable in an All Relatives diagram, because of the way it has to cater for multiple ancestral branches. I assume you are creating an All Relatives diagram with yourself as the diagram root.

The All Relatives diagram always places male ancestral branches on the left and female ancestral branches on the right. The reason why your grandfather is displayed to the right of his siblings is because he has to ‘meet up’ with your grandmother and her ancestral branches which are on the right. He and your grandmother will be positioned roughly mid way between their two sets of ancestors. Perhaps the problem is that you do not have any ancestors or siblings recorded for your grandmother, so the diagram seems lopsided?

The second spouse on the right option cannot be applied to the spouses of a direct male ancestor in the case where the first spouse is the direct female ancestor. As explained above, your grandmother and her ancestors will be to the right of your grandfather and his ancestors, so if his second spouse appeared even further to the right she (and her descendants) would be on the extreme right of the diagram, a very long way from her husband.

If you don’t have any ancestors recorded for your grandmother you might get a more satisfactory layout with an All Relatives diagram based on your grandfather as the diagram root, or perhaps a Descendants diagram with your earliest known male ancestor as the root. These diagrams will not, however, include any ancestral branches of spouses of their descendants so will probably omit some people who are your own direct ancestors.
Lorna

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Parky
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Re: Proxy boxes?

Post by Parky » 18 Mar 2021 10:35

Hi Lorna,

Many thanks for your help. I have selected my earliest male ancestor, my 4 x great grandfather as ROOT, selected an ALL RELATIVES DIAGRAM and the dotted lines have disappeared, siblings are in order as are the spouses. The tree appears as I had hoped/expected. Just need to refine the chart and save it. Thank you again for your help.

Thanks also to Tatewise.

Parky

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