* Registration district numbers

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Genie15
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Registration district numbers

Post by Genie15 » 09 Jan 2021 11:23

Hello readers,
I have recently come across some certificate indexes on Findmypast giving a registration district number (5911Z) and Lancashire.
My question is try as I might I cannot find a list of these new registration district numbers.
Or is the county the only information relating to the numbers.
genie15

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LornaCraig
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by LornaCraig » 09 Jan 2021 11:36

Curiously 5911Z seems to be the code number for a brand of A5 size notebooks which come in packs of ten!

Beyond that I'm afraid I can't help you.
Lorna

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tatewise
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by tatewise » 09 Jan 2021 12:16

Is it after 2005 when there was a reorganization and local Districts were amalgamated into Lancashire Registration District?
If so then it seems that 5911Z is a local reference number and I've seen variations on such numbers with four digits and a letter, but cannot find a definitive list anywhere.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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dewilkinson
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by dewilkinson » 09 Jan 2021 12:19

I have never managed to find a list of what these district numbers apply to. Now that many registration districts are county wide, the detail is less precise than it was previously. Why not write to GRO and see what they say?
David Wilkinson researching Bowtle, Butcher, Edwards, Gillingham, Overett, Ransome, Simpson, and Wilkinson in East Anglia

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AdrianBruce
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by AdrianBruce » 09 Jan 2021 13:06

I have just been comparing some FMP birth registrations for 2006 with those on the GRO site - and am scratching my head!

FMP has:
District Chester & Ellesmere Port
District number 3401D
County Cheshire
Register number D106

For the corresponding reg, the GRO site has:
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/2006 in CHESHIRE WEST (3401D) Reg D106

Notice the different names.

If I look at 2010 births for Smith in Cheshire (manually filtered down to CWaC), the GRO has at least the following:
CHESHIRE WEST AND CHESTER (3451A)
CHESHIRE WEST AND CHESTER (3451D)
CHESHIRE WEST AND CHESTER (3451E)

Then do a similar thing for 2006, and we see on the GRO:
CHESHIRE WEST (3401A)
CHESHIRE WEST (3401B)
CHESHIRE WEST (3401C)

So your guess is as good as mine what the significance of the 9999A codes is. I suspect that the reason for the change in numbers is that Cheshire became two unitary authorities in 2009 and registration districts were reorganised to match. Certainly the 2006 Smiths include registrations from Cheshire Central, which disappear by 2010.
Adrian

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brianlummis
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by brianlummis » 09 Jan 2021 15:35

Having made an online search I came across https://www.registers.service.gov.uk/re ... n-district. You can download a list of the Registration Codes which reveals that the first three numbers relate to a Registration District - so CHESHIRE WEST AND CHESTER is 345. There is no 340 which may have been allocated to CHESHIRE WEST before it changed at a later date. I would guess that the following two characters are the register numbers for that District.

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Genie15
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by Genie15 » 09 Jan 2021 15:50

Hello Brian,
Looked the link and 5911Z is not shown but the list gives a three digit code (the first three digits of the registration number) but not mention of the forth digit (which could be a more local code?) or the letter.
It's a start. Thank you.
genie15.

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dewilkinson
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by dewilkinson » 09 Jan 2021 15:50

I got excited when I saw the link, but sadly the downloaded file gives no more information than GRO gives. But it would be handy if you didn't know the registration district name. For me for example, 748 is Suffolk, but I what I really want to know is what the subsequent 1d, 1c etc refer to. Presumably they would help identify the location better, perhaps not.
David Wilkinson researching Bowtle, Butcher, Edwards, Gillingham, Overett, Ransome, Simpson, and Wilkinson in East Anglia

Deterioration is contagious, and places are destroyed or renovated by the spirit of the people who go to them

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by brianlummis » 09 Jan 2021 15:58

As I said, my thought is that it is the Register Number so when Register 1A is full then they start Register 1B - but that is just a guess! If someone has a contact in a Registration Office then they may be able to throw more light on it, I can't imagine that it's a state secret :)

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AdrianBruce
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by AdrianBruce » 09 Jan 2021 17:38

I notice that the format has changed again - a GRO birth from 2018:
DOR Q4/2018 in CHESHIRE WEST AND CHESTER (345-1C) Entry Number 999999999 [that's a 9 digit number. AB]

It's still 345 for CWaC. No clue about the register! But it does clarify that the 345 is one thing and the 1C another.

From 2010:
DOR Q3/2010 in WIRRAL (0371A) Reg 1A005 Entry Number 999999999
That would work with 1A for the Register 1A005 matching the 1A after 037.

I would speculate that the 1 refers to the Registration Sub-District. My only current-ish certificates for Cheshire are for my parents' deaths, one for Cheshire East, the other for Cheshire West & Chester. The two certificates have a Registration District and a Registration Sub-District at the top but both have the sub-district equal to the district.

Once upon a time there were many sub-districts in a district. Maybe these days there's only one in many cases - certainly true for Cheshire. But I'm sure that there's more than one office - so maybe 1A thru 1E are for different offices in sub-district 1?

Or 1A thru 1E might be for consecutive registers in sub-district 1? That 2010 sample has "Reg 1A005" implying the next register book might be 1A006 but I'm not sure I trust the GRO's labelling!
Adrian

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by gsward » 10 Jan 2021 10:03

Someone could try a FOI request, seems a pretty easy question for the GRO to answer? I would broaden it to give us the whole story of how these have evolved.

You can do so here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/new/gene ... ter_office You may want to look through a few of the previous requests just in case it has been answered, but also to get an idea of the best way to frame the question as the responses are usually specific and the minimum they feel obliged to say. So if you ask about 5911Z, that's what you will get rather than perhaps the complete coding document.

Graham

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 10 Jan 2021 10:13

AN FOI request shouldn't be necessary, surely, just a simple question?

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by gsward » 10 Jan 2021 12:13

In theory no, but if the documents are not in the public domain i.e. are internal working documents, you are much more likely to get the document you need using an FOI. Otherwise you will probably get "sorry it has not been published" or "refer to our website".

Graham

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NickWalker
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by NickWalker » 10 Jan 2021 12:25

I'd suggest asking first rather than going down the FOI route. FOI requests cause more work and are extremely annoying to deal with.
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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by AntonyM » 10 Jan 2021 14:08

Most districts now work like this ...

The district has a superintendent registrar who has overall responsibility for registration - then below them are a number of registrars each having control of a set of registers. Each of those registrars will have a code - 1A, 1C, 1D 1Z etc.

The "reg" is the individual physical register that the entry is in.

The entry number identifies the specific record within that register. Births/deaths are recorded on individual printed sheets that are then placed in a binder and numbered between 001 and 300. Marriages are still done in register books.

An event occurring anywhere in the district can be registered by any registrar in that district, so you can't take any further meaning from the codes.

The longer 9 digit numbers on more recent entries are the record number on the RON computer system (Registration On Line) used in registration offices.

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 10 Jan 2021 14:12

AntonyM wrote:
10 Jan 2021 14:08
Most districts now work like this ...

The district has a superintendent registrar who has overall responsibility for registration - then below them are a number of registrars each having control of a set of registers. Each of those registrars will have a code - 1A, 1C, 1D 1Z etc.

The "reg" is the individual physical register that the entry is in.

The entry number identifies the specific record within that register. Births/deaths are recorded on individual printed sheets that are then placed in a binder and numbered between 001 and 300. Marriages are still done in register books.

An event occurring anywhere in the district can be registered by any registrar in that district, so you can't take any further meaning from the codes.

The longer 9 digit numbers on more recent entries are the record number on the RON computer system (Registration On Line) used in registration offices.
Thank you for an informed answer!

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by AdrianBruce » 10 Jan 2021 16:08

Repeating my thanks, Antony, and especially for the insight that "An event occurring anywhere in the district can be registered by any registrar in that district, so you can't take any further meaning from the codes"
Adrian

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Re: Registration district numbers

Post by dewilkinson » 10 Jan 2021 17:06

I ditto the thanks to Antony, nice to have a better understanding
David Wilkinson researching Bowtle, Butcher, Edwards, Gillingham, Overett, Ransome, Simpson, and Wilkinson in East Anglia

Deterioration is contagious, and places are destroyed or renovated by the spirit of the people who go to them

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