* Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Importing from or exporting to another genealogy program. This is the place to ask.
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Paul Harris
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Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Paul Harris » 15 Dec 2020 17:31

Fresh newbie to FH. When I try to import RM7 file, FH7 is looking for *.rmg file extensions. Only problem is that RM7 (several years old) has an extension of *.rmgc, so I am unable to proceed with this import. There are a gazillion posts on RM importing, but most are somewhat old. Can anyone point me to an appropriate post concerning this? Is GEDCOM the only way to import?

Thanks

Paul

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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 15 Dec 2020 17:43

Welcome to the FHUG Paul.

The details on importing are in the FHUG Knowledge Base at Importing to Family Historian with specific RootsMagic advice, which confirms that GEDCOM is the only way. Please follow all the advice given there.

Afterwards, see Handling Uncategorised Data Fields and Compendium of Conversion Plugins.
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Paul Harris
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Paul Harris » 15 Dec 2020 18:02

Thank you for your prompt reply, Mike. Guess I was just hopeful that FH7 had evolved to have a direct import from RM7.

Appreciate your hospitality.

Best,

Paul

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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by cwhermann » 22 Mar 2021 23:37

I am looking at moving from RM7 to FH7 rather than RM8. I have a dedicated media folder for genealogy related images and would like to continue using this dedicated folder so any genealogy software can link to it.
I set up a trial project and completed the Gedcom transfer from RM7 and noticed the duplication of media that I have seen discussed in other threads along with a plug in to fix the issue. My question is how to set up FH7 to link to this existing folder rather than create an additional media folder set up within the FH7 project folder. I think it would be an organizational nightmare to maintain two separate media folders. Any help/suggestions are gratefully appreciated.
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LeslieP
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by LeslieP » 23 Mar 2021 07:07

It's REALLY easy to continue using your existing media structure, that's what I do. The RM7 GEDCOM export will contain links to all of your media files. When you create a new FH project, DE-SELECT the option to move/copy the media files.

That's it. That's all you have to do.

Your media stays where it is, your FH project is happy in its directory and knows where to find your media files.

I'll add some screenshots just to make it really clear.

Here's the RootsMagic GEDCOM export screen
screenshot_20210323_001.png
screenshot_20210323_001.png (82.79 KiB) Viewed 905 times


Here's the Family Historian New Project screen
screenshot_20210323_002.png
screenshot_20210323_002.png (21.21 KiB) Viewed 905 times
Hope this helps. It's really pretty easy. I know it's recommended that the media goes in the FH Project directory, but that doesn't work well for my purposes, so I choose not to do that. Have not experienced any issues whatsoever.

Good luck!
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Mark1834 » 23 Mar 2021 08:29

I endorse everything that Leslie has said. Your setup is exactly the same as mine when I migrated from FTM about 3 years ago. My approach is that my family history media are no more Family Historian files than they are RootsMagic files, Word files, or any other app that uses them.

I've never fully understood the strong preference some regular contributors here have for moving all the media into your projects. It is the easier option for beginners, particularly novice computer users, but if you are comfortable with your file structure and have the media files fully backed up, keeping them outside your project has a number of advantages.

The only difference between project and external media files as far as the project GEDCOM file is concerned is that in the former case it just records a relative file path (Media\.... etc), while external files are stored with the full path (C:\Users\... etc).

When you come to add future media to your project from within FH, just make sure you do not select the option to copy media (similar to this initial import), and FH will remember your preference for all future additions.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by cwhermann » 23 Mar 2021 11:21

Thank you Leslie and Mark. My question was not well written, it should have asked that if I create a RM7 Gedcom without the Media Links, will FH7 know “where to find them” or will I have to go into each source and event and re establish the links. Looks like I will be all set. Another amazing “welcome” from FH7 :) .
I did a lot of research on setting up image file systems and decided to set up a structure where all images are in a Master file in the untouched format as downloaded, scanned, transferred etc. Some are jpg, some are tiff, some png, some PDF. From this master copy, I will crop, underline, merge, caption etc and then save my edited image as a jpg in my genealogy media file that can be used by any program as needed. With this structure I always (if I make sure I hit the save as) an original and hopefully minimize compression loss, especially for photos.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I am feeling more and more that moving to FH7 is better option than waiting for RM8.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 23 Mar 2021 11:38

It is perfectly feasible for FH to work with Media files outside its Project folder but there are issues to beware of.
They are not serious problems but have caused users difficulties if not understood.
  1. The File > Backup/Restore > Full/Medium Backup ZIP files will NOT include those external Media files.
    So it is important to backup those external Media files by some other means.
  2. When migrating FH Projects to another PC the internal relative Media file paths transfer without any snags.
    The paths to those external Media files will probably become broken because they won't be identical on the other PC.
    However, the Tools > External File Links... command has features that allow the paths to be easily corrected.
    It is just that it can be disconcerting when all the Media appear to vanish from FH.
  3. Some Media administration Plugins only work where Media files are inside the FH Project folder.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by cwhermann » 23 Mar 2021 23:07

OK - Need some help/advice to make sure I am understanding the media link transfer. I set up a new test project and imported the Gedcom file with the media box unchecked and was successful in getting the media links/file paths in FH7 to my existing media file. However, I was surprised when I opened the "all Media" tab there is what appears to be multiple media images. I think I understand what is going on, but want to confirm and make sure I am on the right track to fix it.
For example, in RM I have an image of a census page that is attached to a citation which is used 11 times for various facts/events. The same image is attached directly to the census fact for the four individuals in the family. So within RM, I have an image with 15 links.
When I completed the import, and I went to the Media Tab, the same image shows up 15 times, each with 1 link.
I played around with adding an additional media to a couple of facts and a couple of citations and then when I went back to the Media Tab it shows one image with 4 links. (I tried to paste in a couple of snips from the screens, but guess I need help with that also!!)
Is this where I need to use the "remove duplicated media" plugin?
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by LeslieP » 23 Mar 2021 23:43

That's what I see in my file as well - one jpg file that I have attached to an event and the source is two "media records" both referencing the same file.

I'm wondering how we would then figure out what that media thing is linked to, or even why everything shows 1 link as if there could be multiples - perhaps this is something about the way things were done in RM transferring over to FH. Definitely an area I need to learn more about, but yes, looks the same on my system as well.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Mark1834 » 24 Mar 2021 09:18

I'm not sufficiently familiar with the way RM works to comment on differences between the two apps, but it is worth taking the time early on to get a clear picture of how things are optimally structured in FH.

While it is perfectly possible to attach a media record directly to an event, the more common approach is to attach the image to the source. Taking your census example, the media item is a picture of the source document, not of the actual census itself.

Following that sequence, the census fact is supported by the source record. The source record contains a link to the media record or records containing the image(s). Note that GEDCOM 5.5.1 permits multiple files to be attached to the same record (e.g. where a census entry spreads over 2 pages), but this is not well supported in the market. FH allows it to be done (to support its claim of GEDCOM compliance), but doesn't make it easy, so it is best to regard media records as containing just a single file. This source record is cited for each individual and fact supported by the census (census/residence, date and place of birth, occupation, etc, according to your personal preferences).

The media record then just has one link (to the source record), while the source record has multiple links. On the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words, this is a simple summary of how it all fits together.
Capture.PNG
Capture.PNG (10.86 KiB) Viewed 797 times
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 24 Mar 2021 11:10

Although what Mark says is undoubtedly true that is NOT the problem.

It is the way the FH import process converts the Local Media Objects used in products such as RM to Media Records.
That process is discussed in the Duplicate Media Records (12689) thread with the 'Check for Possible Duplicate Media' plugin.
In that thread, Jane says:
That is NOT a bug, it is working as designed even if it's not ideal and a change for this should be a wish request not a bug report.
I will leave it up to you to decide whether you agree with Jane or to follow the posting of Ian on Mon 22nd Mar 2021 10:28 and complain to CP in similar terms.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Mark1834 » 24 Mar 2021 14:44

Indeed, and I never suggested it was. All I’m recommending is that time spent now on understanding the design philosophy of FH and how facts, sources and media optimally work together is time well spent. There are often many different ways of doing things in FH, but some are undoubtedly easier than others! It took me a while to get my head around how all the bits fit together, but once that penny drops, things become a lot clearer.

Once you understand how media records are intended to be used in FH, you are in a better position to comprehend what is happening in the GEDCOM import.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by LeslieP » 24 Mar 2021 17:15

Re: media record duplication

I created a support ticket explaining the issue, got a quick response
Thank you for your feedback, this issue is logged already, I will add your feedback to it.
The ticket is now closed, but with a status of active which is encouraging.

It simply can't be right for a gedcom import to successfully understand that
2 SOUR @S546@ multiple times in the file means everything links to that same source
2 PLAC Houston, Harris, Texas, United States multiple times in the file means everything links to that same place

but
3 FILE P:\Genealogy\exhibits\birth_records\whatever.pdf as part of a 1 BIRT for 0 @I123@ is totally different from
3 FILE P:\Genealogy\exhibits\birth_records\whatever.pdf as part of a 1 BIRT for 0 @I124@ and totally different from
2 FILE P:\Genealogy\exhibits\birth_records\whatever.pdf as part of a 0 @S123@ source
and create 3 distinct media records, even creating 3 different pdf files

It just defies logic for that to be working as designed.

I did run the Possible Duplicate Media plugin, 415 line items. The effort required to manually merge all of those is pretty daunting, but if a fix is not forthcoming, I would probably do it. I'm guessing there are a lot of folks who would have far more than 415 line items to fix.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 24 Mar 2021 17:30

Leslie, check through the thread Duplicate Media Records (12689) and back in 2015 when I first reported this problem I attached a modified version of Jane's Check for Possible Duplicate Media Plugin that automatically merges duplicated Media Records.
That was over 5 years ago for FH V6 and perhaps should have been integrated with Jane's plugin then but wasn't.
Roll forward 5 years and Jane has offered to update the plugin for FH V7 and incorporate my modification...
I cannot do that because Jane is the Author, so I have no authorisation to publish it in the Plugin Store.
Anyway, I already have 3 dozen plugins to maintain and not keen on another one.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by LeslieP » 25 Mar 2021 13:53

Update on the "Duplicated Media upon import" issue.

I reported the problem to FH support, the ticket was "closed, ACTIVE". I politely asked if "active" meant that a solution might be coming within six months or so, allowing me to wait and not pursue a manual fix to the problem. I just got word back that they are actively working on it and expect the solution within my time frame.

Just wanted to pass that news along.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 25 Mar 2021 14:32

That is indeed good news, and maybe the multiple reports did have an impact. Who knows?
Hopefully, we won't need a Plugin update to fix the problem.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Mark1834 » 25 Mar 2021 17:08

More likely IMO that CP are responding to a possible increase in traffic of RM users who don’t like what they see in the RM8 previews. FH7.1 needs to be more than consolidating bug fixes, so it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see it promoting enhanced RM compatibility. Version 6.2 did FTM, version 7.0 did TMG, so it would be a natural next stage.

Going all-out for native import of RM files is probably not on the cards, as the RM design doesn’t sit well with FH’s use of GEDCOM as its primary data storage, but part of the package might be LuaSQL (available in FH6 at the moment, but not FH7). That would give FH7 plugins the ability to read RM data directly, and the volunteer plugin authors spend their time working out the detailed RM structure, rather than CP doing it themselves.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 25 Mar 2021 17:54

Mark, there have been some enhancements in FH V7.0 but TMG direct import has existed for years in FH V6.2.7.
The import of Media Records problem impacts many more products than RM and includes Legacy.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by LeslieP » 06 Apr 2021 15:04

Another update on the issue of duplicated media on import.

Version 7.0.4.0 is the fix to the problem for new imports. I haven't tested it yet (downloading now). That's GREAT news.

Now for the less great news:

"The fix only affects new imports. It doesn't correct the duplicate Media records in projects that have already been imported. We may create a plugin for this at some point, but I have no date for that if so."

That's from the email I got from FH support.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 06 Apr 2021 16:14

As it will just be a temporary stop-gap, I'll try to update the Check for Possible Duplicated Media to work for FH V7.

Unfortunately, it relies on the luasql library module that is not yet available for FH V7, so I've fallen at the first hurdle.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Mark1834 » 06 Apr 2021 18:31

How about a “quick and dirty” plugin that compares each media record with every other one to produce a table of duplicates (all fields with identical values). It then processes the project GEDCOM file to convert all links from the duplicate record to the master. After reloading the GEDCOM, the unlinked duplicates can be readily identified and deleted.

There are undoubtedly more elegant ways of doing it, but that approach would be a short and easy to code script. It might be a bit slow on very large projects, but it’s only run once so that’s not a dealbreaker.

I don’t mind assembling it if we agree the approach is sound and there are punters wanting to use it.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 06 Apr 2021 19:11

The plugin I was discussing does all that already but also checks the contents of files to determine duplicates even when filenames are different and maintains that in an SQL database so that reruns of the plugin don't have to analyse files again.
Maybe the FH V7 version can avoid the SQL database features. I would prefer to avoid having two or three variants of very similar plugins involving different authors.

There is no need to operate on the GEDCOM file. Everything can be handled by the plugin once the details are agreed.
One snag is that comparing all fields will not find any duplicates at all, because when files are imported into the Project Media folder the duplicates gain filename suffixes (2) , (3) , (4) , et seq. So all the FILE links are different.
However, that is not difficult to cater for.

Contrary to what I said earlier, this plugin may be needed by FH V5 & V6 users who import from RM and Legacy, etc.
So it needs to be maintained in the Plugin Store and work for FH V5 & V6 & V7.
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by Mark1834 » 06 Apr 2021 19:55

OK - most of those considerations don't apply to a quick and dirty run just once on a fresh import. Just checking the file names (allowing for suffixes) is enough as the contents won't have changed. It is only run once per database, so doesn't need to remember the results.

I was just suggesting that something that could be coded in an hour and do the job might be a useful stopgap, but if you'd rather folks waited for the "official" plugin to be updated that's fine by me - I'll carry on with other projects!
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Re: Import RootsMagic 7 into Family Historian 7

Post by tatewise » 06 Apr 2021 21:05

It's getting late now. Let me look at it tomorrow.
I'm also concerned about the slight but potentially real possibility of different files with the same filename.
They may have been in different folders in the original product but merged into the one FH Project Media folder.
Anyway, that can be tested by checking file content using the md5 library module.
It is only the SQL database that is a problem in FH V7, which maybe could be replaced by a simpler database.
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