* Media and addresses / Places

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tatewise
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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by tatewise » 08 Sep 2020 19:27

Adrian, maybe you missed Fred's original posting requirement:
I want to add images of street maps to the places my ancestors lived (in this case a smallish area of Manchester). I'd like to be able to do this once for each place and have it then appear as available media for each of the relevant relatives' Property Box details ....essentially being attached to any Fact that is linked to that address/place....as opposed to having to attach the media to each individual relatives' Facts.
It is fundamentally no different than wanting Source record Media easily available from the Individual Property Box details on the Facts tab. When a Fact has a linked Source Citation then its Source record Media is available via the Show Media button.

In the same vein, when a Fact has a linked Place name then its Place record Media should be easily available. Currently, it is not.

Yes, there are other ways of doing it by linking map Media, or Source Citations with map Media, directly to Facts, but that needs 4,000+ Facts to be processed.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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AdrianBruce
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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by AdrianBruce » 08 Sep 2020 20:16

when a Fact has a linked Place name then its Place record Media should be easily available. Currently, it is not.
Indeed, and I wouldn't argue with that. My issue is - "easily available" for what?

Take a personal example of my 3G-GF who ran a farm at Lower Bartle. If I want to go straight from the relevant Occupation fact on his Facts tab to see a map associated with the place-name of Lower Bartle, then no, my idea doesn't help. Which is why I said "If you want to go from an event while in FH to see the map, then it won't help."

But if if if I primarily want to see that map in his narrative report and am only going from the farm-at-Lower-Bartle Occupation fact on his Facts tab to check that Lower Bartle has a map media item associated with it, then I'd be better off going in via the Place records window to find the Lower Bartle place record. (Because linking the map media to the place-name record (once), automatically causes it to appear in the narrative at the "appropriate"* point for any event at that place - providing you've set the parameters for those media items to appear in the narrative reports).

Again, to reiterate, if we're not talking about narrative reports but instead about wanting to see the map (or whatever) in FH, in-flight as it were, then my suggestion doesn't work.

* Re appropriate place. If I recall correctly, narrative reports are set to only print the item once. So my narrative descendants report for 3G-GF showed the Lower Bartle map once, at the first point it was needed for him, and didn't appear for his children who also farmed at Lower Bartle because they were appearing only as descendants of him. This might or might not be an issue.
Adrian

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by Fred » 09 Sep 2020 19:56

Hi Adrian,

Don't worry, I'm not infuriated - well not yet anyway :D
I do most of my viewing of ancestors and their details via their Properties and so there are 2 things that I would see being significant improvements in FH:

1) A simple one stop method of attaching media to Places after the event i.e. People and Facts already/previously created - presumably this would easiest via >Record Lists and >Places? The attached media should then be 'visible' against any Fact entries for that Place (see #2).

2) To be able to see that a media record has been attached to a Place via the individuals Property window (a simple icon similar to other media indicators is fine) as opposed to having to go on some convoluted multi level search to see if there is/is not any media available.

Hopefully that makes it clearer?

Fred.

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by AdrianBruce » 09 Sep 2020 22:05

Fred wrote:
09 Sep 2020 19:56
... I do most of my viewing of ancestors and their details via their Properties ...
OK - that gives me the context.
Fred wrote:
09 Sep 2020 19:56
...
1) A simple one stop method of attaching media to Places after the event i.e. People and Facts already/previously created - presumably this would easiest via >Record Lists and >Places? The attached media should then be 'visible' against any Fact entries for that Place (see #2). ...
I attached my map Media by simply going straight to the Places tab in the Record Window. No lists were needed in my experiments. When I had the map for Lower Bartle, I'd kinda forgotten who lived there anyway other than that they were Taylors - which still leaves a lot! Going straight to the Places tab in the Record Window means I don't need to check up who lived there, so seems pretty one-stop to me.

Now, as to being (more-or-less) immediately visible against any Facts referring to that place - yes, that does need a change in FH. It's not something I've ever needed for maps because if I wanted to check the maps for Thomas Taylor, I'd just bring up my software that shows album type images for the relevant map folder on my disk.
Fred wrote:
09 Sep 2020 19:56
...
2) To be able to see that a media record has been attached to a Place via the individuals Property window (a simple icon similar to other media indicators is fine) as opposed to having to go on some convoluted multi level search to see if there is/is not any media available.
...
I take on trust that if I've attached a map for Lower Bartle, then it will be attached to every event referring to Lower Bartle. If you actually want to immediately see it, then see above.

Re the "convoluted multi level search to see if there is/is not any media available" - that's where our processes might differ. When I was thinking about maps for localities in Manchester, I was filtering place-records in the Places tab in the Record Window. Which I could do because my Manchester localities all have "Manchester" in their name. If you don't have that structure, then yes, you might need to go in on Individuals to see what places you need map-images for. I had to put "Manchester" in my locality names because I can never remember the difference between Chorley and Chorlton, etc. Hence "Chorlton-on-Medlock, Manchester, Lancashire, England", etc. That seemed to make it easier in my head to process the data.

If the identification of media images required is more complex than just maps, then yes, lists might be needed.
Adrian

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by Fred » 10 Sep 2020 09:41

So, I am starting with simple old street maps, but was hoping to extend this to include old street scene photos and images of churches etc as i wanted to add depth and context to the individuals details in my tree. The simple aim is to be able to do this activity as a one time entry against any individual place and then be able to see the existence of Fact associated media via an individuals Properties window.

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by AdrianBruce » 10 Sep 2020 11:17

Fred wrote:
10 Sep 2020 09:41
So, I am starting with simple old street maps, but was hoping to extend this to include old street scene photos and images of churches etc as i wanted to add depth and context to the individuals details in my tree. ...
That's eminently sensible and would mean that my simple idea of tacking it from the Place-records wouldn't be as effective. Fair enough.

The only thing I'd be wary of - and you may have thought this through already - is that if you attach such images to the Place (in whatever way) then everyone with a fact "at" that place would get "linked" to the image. Regardless of whether it was appropriate. So if you had a map, 3 churches and a market attached to the Place record for Chorlton, then those same 5 images would be shown against any and every fact for Chorlton, regardless of whether the person went to one of those churches or not. If the images are to be general background images, then this probably doesn't matter.

You've certainly encouraged me to play about with adding maps (as static images) to places via the Places tab....
Adrian

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by tatewise » 10 Sep 2020 11:21

Adrian FYI: The alternative to opening the Records Window and then the Places tab is the View > Record Lists > Places command, which is the 'list' that Fred mentioned. It is just another way of getting to the same list of records with much the same number of clicks.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by Fred » 10 Sep 2020 21:54

Adrian wrote: So if you had a map, 3 churches and a market attached to the Place record for Chorlton, then those same 5 images would be shown against any and every fact for Chorlton, regardless of whether the person went to one of those churches or not. If the images are to be general background images, then this probably doesn't matter.

I don't use the Address field and instead I put the full location details (address) in the Place field. So my images will be linked to very specific locations i.e. the 'Parish Church, Chorlton, Manchester', or 'The High Street, Chorlton, Manchester', and in the case of the street maps they would be linked to an actual address, with 1 map potentially being linked to multiple addresses. Hopefully that makes sense?

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Re: Media and addresses / Places

Post by AdrianBruce » 11 Sep 2020 10:29

Fred wrote:
10 Sep 2020 21:54
... I put the full location details (address) in the Place field. So my images will be linked to very specific locations i.e. the 'Parish Church, Chorlton, Manchester', or 'The High Street, Chorlton, Manchester', ...
Ah! Yes, that does alter things somewhat.
Fred wrote:
10 Sep 2020 21:54
... in the case of the street maps they would be linked to an actual address, with 1 map potentially being linked to multiple addresses. ...
In that case you need to look at the effect on the Narrative Reports - if you use them. FH does attempt in various ways (that I'm no longer sure of..) to ensure that a report doesn't continually print the same image again and again. In my test of this stuff, I loaded a map of Higher Bartle and Lower Bartle in Lancashire into FH - one media item. However Higher Bartle and Lower Bartle are separate places in the FH place-records and the same media item is linked to both. I have just re-checked and if I produce a narrative report for one chap who was at both places in his life, then that same map image is repeated because it's printed for both the Higher Bartle and Lower Bartle places.

Working the way you do, you obviously need both images accessible from the person's fact tab, but the effect on a narrative report might be undesirable. Depends if you use them and how you post-process them (I'd probably consider just editting the saved report to remove the repeats).
Adrian

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