*Research George Hook 1869

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Ron Melby
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Research George Hook 1869

Postby Ron Melby » 10 Dec 2018 23:05

re: < I am shot/> ... yes, I have FreeBMD and that lot, My mothers side Hook is from Bethersden:Tenterden:Ebony, Kent area, came across the pond in 1871 but those prior are mostly in St. Mildreds Church Graveyard in Tenterden, with the FreeABCDEFGHIJKLM... versions, detail is not available (and if there is a picture of documents or something, it sure aint on any of my relatives records. Some went to OZ as well.

My great grandfather George Hook was born in Bethersden in 1869 and I had the pleasure of knowing him in my life for 9 years. He sent to England for his tea, and for a butterscotch candy that came in tins, an empty I have here, packed away.

I will at some point see if I can connect Sibley and Langworthy and other folks to over there, sometime.

Perhaps when I am rich and famous, I will figure out what subscriptions to buy over there.

Fathers side is Norway, and its all free and available that end, with Norwegians falling all over themselves to help you find and translate, and get you pictures and items.
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 11 Dec 2018 09:58

Would that be the George Hook born 25 Mar 1869, baptised 15 August 1869 at St mary the Virgon, Ebony, Kent? Parents William Hook (Labourer) and Anna Maria?

Mothers maiden name may have been either Stokes or King, from the birth registration, but William Hook married Anne M Stokes in March quarter 1866, so I'd settle on Anne Maria Stokes.

Elder brother William Edward born December quarter 1867; sisters Elizabeth born June quarter 1866 (so the bride was very pregnant when she walked up the aisle) and Edith Emma both December quarter 1870... Haven't searched any further.

Family was still in England on 2nd April 1871 living in Wittersham, Kent; father was an Ag lab born circa 1842 Tenterden, Kent. Mother was born circa 1847 in Bethersden Kent.

(Didn't pay a penny for the info).

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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 11 Dec 2018 10:04

Ron, I have started looking up the details of George Hook and intend to illustrate what I find in subsequent postings.
The FHUG only allows three attached screenshots per posting, so it may take a few postings to show all the research.

In the UK, ever since 1837, every Birth, Marriage & Death must be registered by law within a few weeks.
Some people broke the law, and some records either contain mistakes or have been accidentally destroyed.
However, in all probability, your family will have their BMD details recorded.

Also every decade since 1841 the UK took a national Census similar to those in the USA.
So your family will be recorded there.

Many of those records are either free or available very cheaply.

See Knowledge Base > Getting Started with Genealogy Research especially under Other Resources near the end that refers to https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Strategic_Research_Logs--England and there to https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/England_Search_Strategies_for_Births,_Marriages_and_Deaths that explains the process for Births, Marriages & Deaths for different date ranges.
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 11 Dec 2018 10:38

I've started with https://www.freebmd.org.uk/ that you know about. Keep scrolling down to see everything I found.

I selected Births, entered the name George Hook, chose all quarters for year 1869 and clicked Find.
The results shown below returned only eight candidates, and only two registered in Tenterden.
Note how the entries are grouped into quarters that list all Births registered in the preceding 3 months.
Ron, do you know if George was born in April to June or in July to September 1869, or some other month?

The District, Vol & Page entries uniquely identify the Birth Certificate that can be ordered (see my next posting).
e.g. Tenterden 2a 597

GeorgeHookFreeBMDsearch.png
FreeBMD Search Results
GeorgeHookFreeBMDsearch.png (40.95 KiB) Viewed 2039 times

Click on the Registration District Tenterden and follow the links to obtain a list of places in that district.
Presumably Biddenden is what you call Bethersden?

GeorgeHookFreeBMDdistrict.png
Registration District Place Names
GeorgeHookFreeBMDdistrict.png (47.97 KiB) Viewed 2039 times

In the original search results click the Info button to download an image of the registration index page.
But that rarely adds any extra details, except some early handwritten versions may reveal transcription errors.

My next posting will show how to use the General Register Office (GRO) services search and order a Birth Certificate.

GeorgeHookFreeBMDindex.png
Download Index Page
GeorgeHookFreeBMDindex.png (26.34 KiB) Viewed 2039 times
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 11 Dec 2018 11:02

Mike, Freereg (for the baptism and birth date) gave me parents names, and also led me to the GRO registration (which gave the possibilities for the mothers maiden name which I then used in Freebmd to confirm the maiden name by finding the marriage.

Once I had the mothers maiden name, I searched the GRO indices for siblings; and then looked for the family in the 1871 census (via FamilySearch which is free.) No images of the actual records along the way although they are available on subscription sites.

Freereg also has the exact marriage date (11 Feb 1866 St Margaret, Bethersden Kent). Groom was a Bachelor aged 22 (a Labourer) and bride was a 19 year old spinster. Fathers were Richard Hook (Labourer) and John Stokes (Labourer). Witnesses John Payn and Jospeh Page. William signed with an X; it isn't noted that Anne Maria did (so she may have been literate).

P.S. Biddenden and Bethesden are different parishes.

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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 11 Dec 2018 11:32

Yes, that is another option, but how do you know that is the correct George Hook as another Birth is registered in Sep quarter and in GRO Search has mother's maiden name KING?

If Ron can supply more details about George's birth date, or his parent's names, that would narrow it down.

I intend to give screenshots for the free GRO Search and ordering PDF Birth Certificate for £6.
Then also illustrate free use of FreeCEN and FreeREG to extend the search.

Sorry, I should have checked if Bethersden existed before assuming it is Biddenden.
Both are between Tenterden and Ashford in Kent.
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 11 Dec 2018 11:39

Because William and Ann Hook with children William, Elizabeth, George, Eda Emma (all born England) are in Minnesota in 1880.

The family of of George Hook who maried Frances Sarah King in September 1867 Tenterden and had children James Edward (1871), Anna jane (1867), Bertha (1875) and Elizabeth Ellen (1873) as well as George (1869) are in Kent 1881 and 1891.

Ron said the family emigrated in 1871.

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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 11 Dec 2018 11:59

Ok, but those are the kind of research and analysis techniques that I suspect Ron needs more help with, because it sounds like he has not made those connections. Let us wait and see what he says.
He might ask "How did we find the mother's maiden name?" or "How did you find those parent & child families?"
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 11 Dec 2018 12:07

Here's a starter for 10 on reconstructing birth families using the GRO indices: https://genealogy.stackexchange.com/a/12427/6485

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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 11 Dec 2018 15:12

One problem Ron will run into is that the Census records he needs are NOT free.
FreeCEN only has a small percentage of Kent records for 1871, 1881, etc, and the ones Ron needs are not there.
So he will need a subscription or credits to access Ancestry or FindMyPast for Census records that do include those families.
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 11 Dec 2018 15:25

FamilySearch has census records transcriptions for US and UK (free) -- that's what I used for USA 1880 and UK 1871/1881/1891 (no images) -- once Ron has homed in on what he needs, he can decide if paying for images is worth it for what they will or will not add (and if he has access to a LDS family history centre or a library with a subscription to a relevant subscription website, he will be able to access the images for free).

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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby Ron Melby » 11 Dec 2018 18:35

George Clarence Hook, Sr.

I should point out the bronze military marker is not his but his oldest sons.


Helen,

Would that be the George Hook born 25 Mar 1869,
baptised 15 August 1869 at St mary the Virgon, Ebony, Kent?
Parents William Hook (Labourer) and Anna Maria?
*
we have it at 24 Mar 1869 (where did you get 25 Mar?)
I assume St. Mary is a Virgin (or did you mean Volgon? (lol)
*

Mothers maiden name may have been either Stokes or King, from the birth registration, but William Hook married Anne M Stokes in March quarter 1866, so I'd settle on Anne Maria Stokes.
*
We have it to be Anne Maria Stokes
*

They sailed from Wittersham, Apr 25 (cant find name of boat) but lore is landed in NY, they lived there for some time, there were other kids born in Yankshire.

Mike,
Yes, this is the most part of it.
"How did we find the mother's maiden name?" or "How did you find those parent & child families?"

Insofar as I can tell, the family was from Bethersden. But B(m)Ds were also in Ebony and Tenterden, with an occasional Benenden and so on, all within 10 miles or so from each other.

funny they got married in St. Margarets, the most of the family was buried in St. Mildreds, in Tenterden. Trying to find the reason there is an affinity to that as well.

Georges Father Williams Father Richard had a son Sion, who went to OZ.

All my living Hook relatives (and Sibleys) who would know anything, are at least 70s and average about 74s+ I have living relatives in OZ still as well, but not one of them will discuss genealogy....I might send them a full pdf register of my gedcom, and they say...Oh, wow!!! do you mind if I give this to my niece who is a genealogist? No, I say, go ahead (never find out the niece or contact info) and I say can I ask you a few questions about birth and death and names and places and so on? *SILENCE*

Anyway, I am sure to some degree thats everyone here.

but I have the issue that is common I think to England..
Hook is a common enough name, by Hook or by Crook.

and the vast majority of the men
William
George
Thomas (Cromwellian?)
John
Richard

with women
Mary
Anne
Elizabeth
(and an Elizabeth Mary, I assume playing both ends against the middle)

so cohort upon cohort to fight thru to find my scions.

there is a tree on family search either under Sarah Keerie or eselleck, (sarah is a far off relation) but there isnt one lousy bit of documentation. there are 10K names in the tree, but along this English line: ?? Thomas Hook(1740-1780)m. Ann Relf ( -c.1812) ?? is about the earliest I am comfortable with.
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 11 Dec 2018 20:47

Ron, I am a little confused. :?
In your earlier postings you say "I am shot" and "detail is not available and if there is a picture of documents or something, it sure ain't on any of my relatives records."
Yet in your latest posting you link to Find A Grave that has lots of details to help you research those relatives.

Exactly what details and documents, and for which relatives, are you looking for?

Did the explanations of where to look for free, given by Helen and me, help at all?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Ron Melby
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby Ron Melby » 11 Dec 2018 21:43

the free ones help. I have them in my research bag. I will start digging in.
I have never found a piece of paper or image of anything with George Clarence Hook, Jr on it.
He was always Clarence (nmn) Hook all my life. is there any evidence anywhere that was his name?
prior to 1871 censuses may be available where I can start looking for fathers and mothers.

But

what I know from Geo Sr on down, I know from I knew those people.

"and if there is a picture of documents or something" for example your FreeBMD link there was a George Hook born in the first quarter 1869 I have no document beyond that, no BAPM nothing before that, other than Wm (my GGFs obituary that has been zeroxed) the other entries that I am comfortable with (not certain of) are non documented from relatives family trees. I would like to start putting evidence to it, SOURces that are more than word of mouth. I do not yet know how parents are found for example.

I dont know what details there are to research from that small article, which was written by my 2nd cousin (now dead) Myrtle Gonnering, also from word of mouth. for instance, I believe you can look for bethersdin Kent the rest of your life and never find it. sort of like programming, an i is not an e, and it wont run. Born in Kent, England, on March 14, 1869 (no, it was the 24th). They first moved to Espelie township, not Valley. But I am ok with those here across the pond, it is william and anne and those before them.

https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/228 ... -141798713

not enough to build a tree from.

https://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Rese ... terden.htm

not enough to build a tree from.

i.e. what Thomas is it? is it mine or one of the other 1000 Thomas Hooks?

I will try to walk the FreeA..Z and UK?? sites and see if I can glean more how to do it. the LDS center is 45 miles from where I work, and also 45 miles from where I live (upside down isosceles triangle) and is open tue afternoons and thur afternoons. I am a working man, but close to retirement. I own a business where I believe your phrase Bob's your Uncle comes from. a bob is your oncle. (an oncle being a pole with a hook on the end for retrieving things from high shelves) just call me Unk. But I plan on retiring soon and will be able to delve into this more during my layabouts.
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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby Gowermick » 12 Dec 2018 06:58

Ron,
In answer to your question about mothers maiden names, if you go to http://www.gro.gov.uk, and go to ‘order certificates online’. Once registered and logged in (don’t worry, it’s free), you can do a seacrh for births and death registrations for free, and unlike freebmd, this site will give you mothers maiden name on births prior to 1911, and age at death for all deaths.
Illegitimate births generally show ‘...’ for mothers maiden name, unlike freebmd, which shows her surname. Mother and child with same surname is often a good indication that child was illegitimate, but this only applies to births on freebmd after 1911, because before then, no mothers name is shown!
Once you have found what you want, you may order a certificate, or a PDF copy of the certificate which is cheaper, or do nothing. The choice is yours.
Mike Loney

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Re: Research George Hook 1869

Postby tatewise » 12 Dec 2018 11:17

Ron, what we are all trying to do here is illustrate how to research anyone in your family tree who lived in the UK.
Bear in mind that any worthwhile hobby usually involves some investment of time and money.
Yes, it is important to spell the names of people and places appropriately, or you will not find the ones you want.
Sometimes you have to try variations of the spellings to find what you want, but beware you may find a lot of other stuff too!
You have to become a detective and find supporting evidence that determines which facts are relevant and which to ignore.
Transcripts of many of the documents you need are free, but you need to know which web sites to search to find each one.
Photo-images of many of those documents are only available via a subscription service (Ancestry, FindMyPast, etc).
BUT the most important documents are UK Birth, Marriage & Death Certificates that are NOT available via any subscription service, but must be purchased from the UK General Register Office (GRO).

OK, let's answer some of your immediate questions and then get back to the UK research process.

To find Bethersdin, Kent, England just enter that into the standard Google Search engine and it will suggest you mean Bethersden, Kent, England and among many other entries provide a Wikipedia page giving full details of the village with a map.
You will see it is near Tenterden where the birth was registered, so the i is a mistake for e.

Find A Grave says George Clarence Hook, Jr lived in Marshall County, Minnesota, USA so not a subject for UK research.
Perhaps you mean George Clarence Hook, Sr who we are researching here, but it is fairly common for people to adopt different names over their lifetime. Since he also spent most of his life in Marshall County, Minnesota, USA you should find when he added Clarence to his name in the USA Census records on the https://www.familysearch.org/ web site.

Now let's look him up on the https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp UK General Register Office (GRO) web site where you must register an account and login, which is free.
Then choose to search the GRO Indexes at https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp.
Select Birth and enter the name of George Hook, Gender Male and Year 1869 as shown below but note you can also filter on Mother's Maiden Surname that is NOT possible in FreeBMD for entries before 1911.

GROIndexSearch.png
GRO Index Search Filters
GROIndexSearch.png (45.9 KiB) Viewed 1825 times

Click Search to get Results similar to those in FreeBMD but with Mother's Maiden Surname included, which you know from Find A Grave is Stokes and confirms the GRO Reference for the birth of George Hook is 1869 June Quarter (Q2) in TENTERDEN Volume 02A Page 597. So scroll down to discuss your next options.

GROIndexResults.png
GRO Index Results List
GROIndexResults.png (42.72 KiB) Viewed 1825 times

You can record that GRO Reference in FH as the Source proof for his Birth Event alongside the Find A Grave reference.
To get formal proof of his Birth Date and Address plus his Parent's Names then you must buy the Birth Certificate.
Click the PDF button next to George Hook to order a PDF download costing £6 (about $7.50).

Otherwise, the best you can do is search for a Baptism entry like that found by Helen on the https://www.freereg.org.uk/ web site, or search Census records on the https://www.familysearch.org/ web site, but may not improve on the information you already have in Find A Grave.

Once you know the parent's names, you should be able to find their Marriage GRO Reference by searching FreeBMD.
The UK Census 1871 search should find the family household giving approximate Dates & Places of Birth for them all.
Similar details should be found in the USA Census 1880 onwards.
Then you can start the search process over again (the same as we've done for George) for each of his parents and siblings.
Do you need any assistance with any of the techniques introduced so far?

NOTE to Helen:
Is this basic UK research process worth documenting in Knowledge Base > Genealogy Research to supplement Getting Started with Genealogy Research and Genealogy Presentations?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry


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