*Is it possible to date a note?

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ColeValleyGirl
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Is it possible to date a note?

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 14 Jun 2018 15:12

I very often use Family notes and/or individual notes.

When these are imported into Gedsite, the order in which they are shown depends on the date associated with the note -- or a sort date if one is present. This results in output where the note for a first marriage follows the note for a second marriage, which looks odd.

John Cardinal on the Gedsite list has suggested I manipulate the dates to get the correct sequence.

As far as I can see in FH, there is no facility to date these family notes.

What am I missing?

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby LornaCraig » 14 Jun 2018 15:48

No, I can't see any way to date a Family note in FH, although two or more notes relating to the same Family record can be ordered within the Family record using up/down arrows in the Property Box.
Where is Gedsite finding a date associated with the note?
Lorna

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 14 Jun 2018 16:07

That's a good question, Lorna...

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby tatewise » 14 Jun 2018 16:11

There is no standard GEDCOM way to add a Date to any Note field.

However, a Sort Date is non-standard GEDCOM so presumably in GedSite an _SDATE tag can be applied to anything.

It is not obvious how that can be achieved within FH as we have devised a Local Multimedia Object with a Title of 'Sort Date' to represent a Sort Date, and those media cannot be applied to any Note field.
It might be feasible to apply such an LMO Sort Date to the record as a whole, and attach an _SDATE tag based on that to any whole record Note. It would need both the Order Facts by Sort Date and Export Gedcom File plugins to be updated.

Do other products such as TMG and RootsMagic support an _SDATE tag on Note fields?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Jane
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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby Jane » 14 Jun 2018 16:33

Personally what I have are facts for miscellaneous items, one for the Family and one for Individual. I date them with a relevant date, but don't show the date in narrative reports, just the Note field.

I like this solution as it means that you can include snippets of information in a narrative report, to break up the sentences generated by Facts.

You could easily write a plugin to run through a person (or lots of people or families) and convert notes to Misc Facts and add dates as needed.
Jane
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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 14 Jun 2018 16:59

John Cardinal has offered to assign a Sort date based on the marriage date to relevant family notes, but it won't help with unmarried couples. I might end up going Jane's suggested route...

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby tatewise » 14 Jun 2018 17:06

Why can't GedSite order those Family record Notes according to order of the FAMS links, which is presumably how it orders the partnerships even when there is no Marriage Date, which is exactly how FH does it in Individual Summary Reports.
See the Anthony Edward MUNRO example, and swap the Julia and Susan spouse tabs, whereupon in his Individual Summary Report the Note on Marriage to... entries are swapped, regardless of Marriage Dates.
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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby tatewise » 15 Jun 2018 10:36

I notice that on GedSite Digest for googlegroups it says:
Here is an example of the GEDCOM records written by the Export Gedcom Plugin for Family Historian (FH):
0 @F7@ FAM
1 MARR
2 DATE 2 SEP 1845
1 EVEN
2 TYPE Fam Note
2 NOTE Two daughters were born to this marriage.
In the case above, the next version of GedSite will assign a Sort Date to the "Fam Note".
There are a number of issues with that regarding my Export Gedcom File Plugin using Export Mode: (GST) GedSite.
  1. No _SDATE Sort Date tags are produced, so was (-) Brief Data mode chosen by mistake?
  2. It does NOT usually produce a Fam Note event from a Family 1 NOTE Note, so did you create that custom event by hand, or did you set Extra Options tab Record Note 1 NOTE to Move to Fam Note Fact?
  3. If you set (-) Full Data mode, the MARR and Fam Note will both automatically gain an _SDATE Sort Date tag.
    (Use Order Facts by Sort Date to get sensible _SDATE values even when no Marriage event Dates as long as there are some child/spouse dates.)
  4. Such a custom Fam Note event can have a Date field or labelled Note [[Sort Date: 1 Jan 1900]] if necessary where there is no Marriage event and Order Facts by Sort Date does not yield an appropriate _SDATE.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 15 Jun 2018 11:12

Thanks Mike -- am busy clearing my garage and packing up my kitchen ready for an onslaught of kitchen fitters on Monday but hope to find some time for this this weekend.

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby tatewise » 16 Jun 2018 10:15

I have some other thoughts on how GedSite could sort Family local Note fields, but will wait until you have time to investigate.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby ColeValleyGirl » 19 Jun 2018 10:15

Mike,

To answer your queries:

The export was done in (+) Full data mode.

Yes, I did set Extra Options tab Record Note 1 NOTE to Move to Fam Note Fact? (I need to separate out the family notes from other notes to display each type in the right place on my website. I also move Marriage Status to a record note, which then becomes a Fam Note.

I already use Order Facts by Sort Date, but that doesn't help in the one instance where I have an un-named individual who fathered a child by a named; however the child is totally excluded from the dataset as they're still alive (but there is a note to say that one child was born to the relationship). [I suspect John Cardinal omitted the _SDATE in the example he quoted so that he could explain what would happen if there was no _SDATE].

I may have to manually add a Fam Note (with _SDATE) to the family where there is otherwise no dateable fact. However, John Cardinal has implemented his proposed change and it seems to sort things how I want them, so I may leave well enough alone.

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby tatewise » 19 Jun 2018 10:44

OK, your explanation deals with all the issues, and covers the suggestions I had in mind.
I considered modifying the Export Gedcom File Plugin to add an _SDATE to the Fam Note derived from the Family record Note, but GedSite now has that covered.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Is it possible to date a note?

Postby tatewise » 19 Jun 2018 21:20

Helen was curious how I'd derive a sort date in difficult cases, and went on to raise further Plugin problems, and that is continued the Export Gedcom File for GedSite but no _SDATE (16021) discussion thread.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.


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