* Birth of son not recorded

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shinglma
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Birth of son not recorded

Post by shinglma » 23 Sep 2017 12:27

Having used Ancestral Sources for some time to enter census records I have started to add BMD certificates.

I have had no problems with Marriage and Death Certificates but when entering a Birth Certificate if either parent is the informant it records the entry as "Birth" rather than "Birth of Son" or "Birth of Daughter". I have seen a recent topic about this subject but cannot get this to work.

I have created the Informant witness role and this produces "The informed Birth of..." entry but now the entry "Birth" does not appear let alone "Birth of Son" or "Birth of Daughter".

Can anyone using this feature of Ancestral Sources give me any advice?

Please let me know if you require any further information.

Thanks in advance

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tatewise
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by tatewise » 23 Sep 2017 15:04

The relevant advice is in Knowledge Base > Family Historian Birth & Death Informant Witness Role.

It sounds like you have partially followed that advice but the recommended New Role fields should be:
Role Name: Informant
Past Tense: Informed
Witness Sentence Template: {individual} was an {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place}

Assume the father John Smith was the Birth Informant of his son Jack Smith.
For son Jack Smith the Fact list would say Born in Newton, London and there will be no entry for his dad as Informant.
For dad John Smith the Fact list would say Informed Birth of Jack Smith.
There will be no Timeline fact Birth of son Jack Smith.
This is because the Facts tab only allows one entry per Fact.
Also in most Reports only the Birth fact will be listed. Only Narrative reports include Witnesses.

If you want both the Birth and the Informant events to be recorded such that they appear for both son and dad you need a different approach using a separate custom event. This can be achieved in Ancestral Sources by changing the Associated Individual Type for Birth as Informant from Witness Role to Custom Event, or create a new type of Registrant as a Custom Event. Then in FH create a matching custom event in Tools > Fact Types with a Child witness role. Then in the resultant event for the dad, add the son as a Child fact witness. See Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources Tutorial ~ Working With Templates ~ (4) Associated Persons for the basic concepts, but the details will be specific for Birth Informant/Registrant.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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shinglma1
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by shinglma1 » 24 Sep 2017 11:25

Thanks Mike for such a comprehensive reply.

I had difficulty logging in last night so have had to re-register hence slight change to user name.

I will have to give all of this some thought but I want the timeline to contain an entry "Birth of Son/Daughter" to match those children where no birth certificate is attached. One simply titled 'Birth' seems liable to cause confusion between the individuals own birth and one of their offspring.
Not entering any informant details seems to remove any mention of the child's birth but retains the individual's residence and occupation details.

What I am trying to achieve is some consistency of the entries for those children who have a birth certificate listed and those who do not. At the moment I am struggling to achieve this via Ancestral Sources.

Thanks for your advice. I will be mulling all this over again today.


Mike

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tatewise
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by tatewise » 24 Sep 2017 12:11

There is a compromise scenario with a little customisation.
You can retain the default Ancestral Sources setting for Informant as Witness Role.
Then the Birth fact Informant role can be customised such that the Facts tab says something like:
5 Jan 1953 Birth of son Jack registered
i.e.
Just the word registered is appended to the usual Timeline wording 5 Jan 1953 Birth of son Jack

This requires a technique mentioned in Knowledge Base > Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates using the Advanced button to reveal Override Templates for the Facts tab listing.
The Birth fact Informant role Edit Role - Advanced Features dialogue Template would be:
Birth of {=Sex(GetRecord(%FACT%),"son ", "daughter ","")}{=FieldText(GetRecord(%FACT%),'INDI.NAME:FIRST')} registered
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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shinglma1
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by shinglma1 » 24 Sep 2017 13:13

Thanks Mike once again for your help.

One question though - will that record the fact with the date of birth or the date of registration of the birth?

Thanks


Mike

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shinglma1
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by shinglma1 » 24 Sep 2017 13:29

Mike

To answer my own question - its the DoB.

The other thing to mention is that because its the DoB the word "registered" is superfluous to my needs.

Thanks for all your help.


Mike S

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tatewise
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by tatewise » 24 Sep 2017 16:50

For the benefit of others who may be following this thread, the point about the date of the event is mentioned in Knowledge Base > Family Historian Birth & Death Informant Witness Role.

Since the Informant role is a Witness to the Birth Event then the Date will always be the DoB.
This is true for all facts with witnesses, where the same date will appear for the principal and each witness in their Facts tab.

If you wish to record the Date of Registration then a separate custom event is required, possibly with a Child role as Witness so the event appears in both the parent and child Facts tab.

I suggested to include the word registered to clearly distinguish the Timeline facts from the Witness facts, although their 'grey bullet' versus 'blue arrow' does a good job. See Knowledge Base > Property Box Dialogue: Individuals: Facts Tab.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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tatewise
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by tatewise » 26 Sep 2017 13:56

On further consideration I have a revised Template that works for both Birth and Death witness Informant roles and is now in Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources > Family Historian Birth & Death Informant Witness Role under Facts Tab Format.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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shinglma1
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Re: Birth of son not recorded

Post by shinglma1 » 26 Sep 2017 15:04

Mike

Many thanks for all your input and advice with this. FH is great software to start with but the dedication of folks like yourself make it better still.

I will look over the revised template but just wanted to express my thanks for your valued input.

all the best


Mike S

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