* Copying or creating an Event

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E Wilcock
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Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 24 Jan 2017 09:15

I am starting a new thread for this question.
When I moved to fh, I resolved not to use custom Events, but I am tired of editing Emigration to represent Deportation. And if I dont edit it, it doesnt correctly convey that the journey (Deportation) was not one of choice.
tatewise wrote: Although in FH you cannot copy specific Fact Type Definitions you can use Fact Sets > Clone to make a copy of any set of definitions, and then Delete the specific Fact Types Definitions you do not need, leaving the ones you want to adjust, but they will exactly the same names as the originals.
I didnt want the new fact to have the same name as the old one. My plan was to create a new custom fact which , apart from the name/label and one word in the sentence will duplicate an existing fact, with all the fields provided.
I wanted my Deportation Event to copy the fh Emigration Event because it provides two place fields both in the sentence and in the data input pane.

In genealogy software there is always a problem with the preposition that comes in before place names, and I didnt trust myself to handle that.

My attempt to start from scratch and create a new Event, shows I was right to be anxious. I have read the Section in Simon Orde's book chapter 6 page 67 on creating custom facts and successfully created new custom facts for being admitted to and released from prison/internment. I even created roles for guards and fellow prisoners.

But the need for two places in Deportation has defeated me. I have created a new Event, and copied and pasted the sentence from Emigration with the two place fields. Unfortunately even with the sentence correct, the dont appear on the data entry screen. And I remember before getting defeated with the field sizes when creating special data entry panes. And in any case have now forgotten how to do this for my new Event.

Which is why I wanted to cheat and duplicate Emigration in the first place.

So may be I can repeat the question and ask if there is a way of finding and copying the Emigration Event design?

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 24 Jan 2017 10:38

The short answer is that you cannot do that.

You are not the first to be bamboozled by the two Place names in Emigration and Immigration events.
The Secondary Place name is a non-standard (but legal) Gedcom field that only applies to those two events.
(The full list of such non-standard FH extensions is in Knowledge Base > GEDCOM Extension List.)
For that reason many users avoid that Secondary Place field because it does not migrate to other products.

Check the Fact Definition > <<Insert Code > How to Use Advanced Features and in that Help page you will find:
Secondary Place
Code: {_place2}
Used with immigration and emigration events only as each of these, unlike all other fact types, are associated with 2 places: the place the person immigrated to and the place they emigrated from. This code causes the secondary place to be inserted.
So you have various ways forward:
  1. Persevere with Emigration and Immigration in order to use the Secondary Place field and employ another field to adapt the Sentence Template to the word you want to be different. The two most popular fields would be the Note field and the Witness Role.
  2. Create a new custom Deportation Event/Attribute (or use the Extended Set existing Arrival, Departure, Destination, Origin Attributes). The benefit of an Attribute is that it offers an extra {value} in which you could put the second Place name or use to adapt the Sentence Template.
See Knowledge Base > Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates under Custom Fact Fields for the technique to add extra meta-fields to a fact.
When you have a better understanding of the options, and which ones you want to explore, I can advise further.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 24 Jan 2017 11:09

No I hadnt understood that the second place would not export. I thought it was beautiful!

Do you mean the data for the second place is not exported in any field? Not even a note? For instance that it would not arrive in GEDSITE?

I suspect there is something major I am not understanding. If I use an existing Event type of any kind and it has to keep the same name, does that mean I have to give up using it for its original purpose because it will now have a deportation sentence?

I do need immigration as well. Because refugees who migrate are not the same as those deported.

I confess that I did wickedly copy the Fact type file and open the copy in Notepad to have a look. Not recommended as I eventually messed up and had to get rid of my custom set.

[FCT-EMIG-IE]
Name=Emigration
Label=Emigration
Abbr=Emigrated
Template={individual} emigrated <from {_place}> <to {_place2}> {date} {age} <together with {other=emigrant}>
Timeframe=LIFE
Event Tab=
Rec Win=
Field Date=1
Field Age=1
Field Place=1
Field Address=1
Field Note=1
Fast-Add Menu=N
Hidden=N

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 24 Jan 2017 11:44

The second place DOES export as explained in Knowledge Base > GEDCOM Extension List by using the non-standard _PLAC tag that is typically ignored when imported by other programs. (Did you look at that KB page?)
But GedSite is specially designed to cope with the GEDCOM dialects of some programs including FH and not only understands the _PLAC tag but also understands the {_place2} code in Sentence Templates.
For other products, the Export Gedcom File Plugin typically moves the second _PLAC name into the local NOTE field.

So going back to my original reply, I offered various ways forward. Which one sounds most attractive?

Given your interest in exporting to GedSite you need to consider those implications.
If you export a standard Immigration &/or Emigration fact to GedSite, how do think it will interpret it, and what sentence will it produce?
Although GedSite understands FH Sentence Templates, it does not (yet) support all the advanced features.
So you cannot heavily customise the Sentence Template to support both its original purpose and the Deported purpose.
If you did, then GedSite would not understand, and would create a different possibly gibberish sentence.

Thus the best option is the second one, using a custom Deported Attribute with a {value} for the second Place.
Its Sentence Template would be something like:
{individual} was deported <from {_place}> <to {value}> {date} {age}
Such a custom attribute would be supported by most products, and in particular would be handled perfectly by GedSite.
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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 24 Jan 2017 16:01

I understand what you are explaining though not all the terms in it. I had better deal with that first.

I thought in GEDCOM terms, an attribute was a quality which remained with one throughout one's life? Why should Emigration which is an event with a date and for which I require a Note filed please, be called an attribute?

And I dont understand the term value - other than it being any text I might write into that field. However, I may not need to understand.

The message is clear that emigration is not a normal Event. Yet it pleased me very much because of its clarity. And I now have a Project in fh of more than 1800 people in which it is widely used. My feeling is that, like the dated UK census Tags in TMG which were also not normal and which I also used, the emigration Event is part of a program that I find convenient, enjoy using and the problems of its re export can wait until that time eventually comes.

In other words your warning is fair and more educated than my response which is that I would like to go on using it and what I would really like to have and to use is a custom Event for Deportation that mimics it.

I was so worried by your cautions about the data not transferring, that I have run a trial or two.

I depend on GEDSTAR Pro for Android to carry my research on my smart phone.
I dont use Second Site for a full narrative website. But I do reply on it to carry my Projects (view only) on an i-pad when travelling or to pass on my research in its entirely. So I needed to discover how these two programs handle fh Emigration.

I opened the fh Sample Project and created an emigration event for Ian Monro.
Date 24 Jan 2014 Place London England, Address 14 Picadilly, To Chile. Note He had to wait for his mother in law's visa.
Unfortunately I forgot to edit the local sentence so it showed the address.
I then used the GEDCOM export plug in to export 2 files, one for GEDSTAR Pro and one for GEDSITE.

On my phone (via drop box) all the information comes through,
Emigrations details, 24 Jan 2015 (age 62) London England, 14 Piccadilly. He had to wait for his mother in law's visa. Into Place: Chile.

I hesitate to say anything about Gedsite as I havent even begun to use that yet. But just plunging in - it came through as

He emigrated from London, England, to Chile on 24 January 2015. Address is lacking as I forgot to put it into the sentence and the Note was lacking because I probably failed to select Notes.

So I went back and selected the Notes to be added and now it is like this. Which is perfect.

He emigrated from London, England, to Chile on 24 January 2015 He had to wait for his mother in law's visa.

To be sure about handling of fh address fields I went back and altered the local sentence in fh to
{individual} emigrated <from {address} > {_place} <to {_place2}> {date} {note} {age} <together with {other=emigrant}>
and then got

He emigrated from 14 Piccadilly London, England, to Chile on 24 January 2015 He had to wait for his mother in law's visa.

You will see that I havent a clue about the combined use of two kinds of brackets here. But I just wanted to reassure myself that all the data I have already typed into emigration was not going to be irretrievable.

I also for what it is worth exported from the fh plug in a 3rd time, a gedcom destined this time for Rootsmagic and I see what you mean about the details lacking from the main fields and the sentence for emigration. But if one looks further, they are all there in the note, just as they are on my phone.

However the real problem remained that it is not possible to clone an Event in FH, rename it, rewrite its sentence and use it as a new custom event?
I am glad that I am still able to edit this post. Because I have made myself a custom Event and will now test it for export.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 24 Jan 2017 16:30

You have understood the general concepts, and satisfied yourself the Export Gedcom File Plugin does what it says on the tin. If you had exported the actual FH Gedcom file you would not have achieved such success. I have worked closely with the authors of both GedStar Pro and GedSite so the Plugin produces the best GEDCOM dialect for their products.

You are partially correct about the GEDCOM concept of an Attribute, but it does not have to be for a lifetime.
For example a person can have several Education and Occupation Attributes lasting different periods.
The {value} of an Attribute is in the Occupation example the job that appears in the box after the word Occupation: on the Facts tab. If you check you will see every Attribute has such a {value} box and every Event does not.

Apart from the GEDCOM suggestion, Events and Attributes are entirely interchangeable except for the {value}.

Emigration (and Immigration) is a normal standard Event except it has an extra non-standard secondary Place field.
It is not like the TMG UK Census year tags that are custom events.

So as I said at the end of my previous reply, you will have to create a custom Deported fact from scratch, which is just like those TMG UK Census year custom events. However, custom events are well supported in all products.

The point about those TMG UK Census year custom events is they are in conflict with the normal standard Census Event that is much better supported with various tools for handling the research of Census records.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Post by E Wilcock » 24 Jan 2017 17:21

No, it is all right. I have created the custom Event Deportation with its two places. And I hope that this time it is properly saved.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 24 Jan 2017 18:31

It works fine inside the programme and reports and it exports as a gedcom direct from fh - but the plug in doesnt like my having messed with the Fact file. I have infringed the rules.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 24 Jan 2017 18:39

What EXACTLY have you done?
I don't believe it is possible to get that second Place field just by modifying the Fact Set Definitions.
Those second Place fields are tied specifically to the Emigration (EMIG event tag) and Immigration (IMMI event tag) and nothing else.

Post details of the Fact Set file &/or the Tools > Fact Types entries for the custom Deportation Event.

What is the Plugin you are talking about, and how do you know it does not like what you have done?
(It is very frustrating to have only snippets of information.)

If you have found a workaround for the second Place field, a lot of people will want to know.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 25 Jan 2017 10:50

Mike,
It is very easy on a Public Forum to pick up the wrong idea about people who are posting. You are the fh and genealogy expert. I am good at investigative historical research but I am a beginner at fh, often too dumb to understand the instructions. And I am at home with a very bad cold and not thinking clearly enough to do my "real" work.
So yesterday in that muddled frame of mind I had time to experiment with fh. Not only was I feeling under the weather but I was very cross and alarmed to hear from you that my Emigration data might not export. I experimented with exports to Gedstar and Gedsite not to prove you wrong but because I was frantic and needed to reassure myself. Which happilly I did.
tatewise wrote:What EXACTLY have you done? .
I cant answer this "exactly". If I had known I was plunging in to a problem that might be of interest to others, I might have kept notes. From my point of view I was disobeying you, blundering about and it ended in failure. I felt ashamed of myself for having tried, for having ignored your advice, so I tidied everything up and reverted to normal - deleting all the Fact definition files that might have provided a record of what I did.
I don't believe it is possible to get that second Place field just by modifying the Fact Set Definitions. .
You are probably right. But I will try to describe to you what I did, and you may be able to pin point the obstacle. Remember this is an inexperienced user without much clue what I was doing, and when things did not work, I blamed myself and did something a little different. So there is no real method to what I was trying.

I used note pad. I made a copy of the Standard Fact Definition file, opened it in notepad and copied the portion that covers the Emigration Event. I closed that fact Definition file.
I edited the Emigration Fact Definition text, replacing all references to Emigration with Deportation or was deported. And pasted that into The Custom Fact Definition File. My Custom facts definition file only has two Custom Facts. Event Misc and Research Notes.
If you wished, you could probably replicate this editing more knowledgeably than I can.

I assumed that the combination of the Event sentence with 2 place fields and the codes for the fields required combined to give me the screen view that I wanted for data entry.

After two or three tries, this appeared successful as far as on screen editing goes. I was able to Add Fact, select Deportation, and fill in data. I did this both on my fh project and the sample project. I reported success on the Forum. But when I returned froma break, I had lost it. I though may be I had been dreaming! I blamed myself for failing to save it. Repeated the process and did a massive back up save.

During the afternoon and evening I may have created and then lost the Event about 3 times. But I was still blaming myself and my incompetence.

I wrongly thought that having the 2nd place field on screen and being able to edit it meant every thing was fine. I tested it with individual narrative reports both in the sample project and my own data base. The output was fine.

So my next step was to try export.
What is the Plugin you are talking about, and how do you know it does not like what you have done?
This is the Export GEDCOM plug in. My first trial was to my phone using the Gedstar mode and the sample Project - my data came across to my phone but as you rightly predicted the Event was labelled Emigration. I cant remember whether or not I checking the Fact Definition file to see whether I had left in any references to Emigration. Or whether the conversion for Android simply re-allocated the data to Emigration. In TMG I seem to have had two Deportation Custom Fact Tags, each with a deportation sentence , i.e.Deported from and Deported to, and I see one of them is mapped to GEDCOM EMIG.

I then tried the Gedcom Export plug in in Gedsite mode and that was when I got the error message - a paragraph with details and it froze and I couldnt export any file at all. This was a mega problem. Again I blamed my own ommissions and blunders and after three times, I decided I had been an idiot and was going to pack it all in. The error message was about an infringement of the rules and in Fact Type. Which from the point of view of your plug in was correct.
If you have found a workaround for the second Place field, a lot of people will want to know.
Until I read this, I didnt know anyone was interested. I had been blaming my own ignorance. In view of your post here - I now think that there may have been a pattern to my loss of that custom event type Deportation and its data entry screen.

The fact type remained available as I switched from one project to another. But it vanished if I exited the Program fh. And started the Program up again. Do you think that is a possible explanation?

I seem to remember it even disappeared from my Custom list. My attempts to exit and save intended to save my Deportation fact were probably self-defeating.

So everything you say Mike is absolutely correct.

The question for Calico Pie is why the rules need to restrict our use to just those two Events?
If one is permitted a standard event as an exception, why not allow a custom event?

I am worried about doing further experiments (tho I am still stuck indoors) because I have now created a normal single place custom Deportation Fact and I put some data into it last night. So I dont want to overwrite it. Or muddle up two facts having the same name. For the same reason I dont want to restore the full back up I did yesterday. I dont think that zip file includes Fact types anyway?

There are lots of deportation lists on line from the Nazi period. And the anticipated destination of every train is known. But having a destination on departure does mean that the train arrived there, nor that every person who left on that train arrived at its stated destination. Nor that there is a date of arrival. So a second place field for Deportation would be nice.
Deported with Transport 17, Train 901-12 from Gurs, Camp, France to Auschwitz Birkenau, Extermination Camp, Poland on 05/08/1942.

As one doesnt have the luxury of two place fields in TMG (or any software I have used) one cant really complain about fh - but it was tantalising to have that possibility. And if there were anything you thought I could do, I might be tempted to try again.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 25 Jan 2017 14:27

I have a strong suspicion I know what you did and why it would appear to have worked and given the effects you describe.
It sounds like you created a custom fact set file similar to the following :-
[.index]
Ver1=1
Ver2=0
Count=1
Item1=EMIG-IE
[FCT-EMIG-IE]
Name=Deportation
Label=Deportation
Abbr=Deported
Template={individual} was eported <from {_place}> <to {_place2}> {date} {age}
Event Tab=
Rec Win=
Timeframe=LIFE
Field Date=1
Field Age=1
Field Place=1
Field Address=1
Field Note=1
Hidden=N
Fast-Add Menu=N

That works (up to a point) because it has 'stolen' the EMIG Gedcom fact tag and given it the Name Deportation.
Thus it is displayed in FH as the Deportation Event but is employing the EMIG Gedcom tag.
Internally FH allows the EMIG an IMMI tags to have two Place fields, so that all works.

However, did you inspect the Tools > Fact Type list, or some of your Emigration facts?
You would discover that Emigration was not listed, and the Emigration facts were named as Deportation facts.
In other words, all you have done is give the Emigration (EMIG) tag the name Deportation instead.
You could have done exactly the same in the Standard.fhf file but the effect would have been more obvious, because you would just be renaming the Emigration fact.

When you export those facts they will all use the EMIG tag which GedStar Pro will label as the Emigration fact, because that is its standard Gedcom meaning.

I strongly advise that you do not edit the ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian folder of customisation files ever again unless you are really sure of what you are doing.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by jbtapscott » 25 Jan 2017 14:33

Although slightly off at a tangent, I use only the "From Place" in the Emigration event and place the rest of the data in the Emigration Note - thus From Place will equal (say) "Southampton, England" and the Note will contain "on the ship 'ABC' to Port Adelaide, SA, Australia, arriving dd/mm/yyyy". Any other information I have in respect of the journey I add to the Note and then use the FH Fact Definition sentence to join the Note with the departure date and port, etc.

Following on from this (and the reason for this posting!) is that I have mirrored this setup in a Custom Fact "Sailed" as quite often it is not clear from the records whether a person intends to actually emigrate or whether they might just be visiting.

Much like you, I played around with the "To Place" when I migrated from TMG but eventually decided I got a more consistent result (across the multiple Facts) by ignoring it.
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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 25 Jan 2017 14:52

Thanks for the explanation Mike.
No in my final attempts, I didnt leave those letter EMI - I called it DEPO. I do wish now that I had kept the whole error message from my failed export for Gedsite.
I have bits and pieces left on ClipMate

[FCT-DEPO-IE]
Name=Deportation
Label=Deportation
Abbr=Deported
Template={individual} was deported <from {_place}> <to {_place2}> {date} {age}
Timeframe=LIFE
Event Tab=
Rec Win=
Field Date=1
Field Age=1
Field Place=1
Field Address=1
Field Note=1
Fast-Add Menu=N
Hidden=N

I got into trouble with all the Witness fields which are not on your example.
But if you told me what to paste in , and any changes needed to the first lines of the Fact set, do you think it would work?

I heed your warning. I read it because I was curious and I read a downloaded set, which I knew I could down load again. I didnt do anything to the standard file except make a copy using Windows. I copied and renamed my custom file as Custom2.

I knew that I have FH with its programme data folder also installed on my lap top if I did cause a problem, I could copy that into my desktop computer.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 25 Jan 2017 14:56

jbtapscott wrote: Any other information I have in respect of the journey I add to the Note and then use the FH Fact Definition sentence to join the Note with the departure date and port, etc.
That is what I did in TMG and now in fh - as far as Deportation is concerned. Like you, I had a lot of sailings to and from Australia as well as emigration!

But what do you mean link the Note with the departure date and port with the fact definition sentence?

Are you able somehow to link the name of a Port in your note to that Port in the Place list? I would be interested in doing that.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 25 Jan 2017 15:17

That snippet of Fact Set file is missing its heading :-
[.index]
Ver1=1
Ver2=0

Count=2 is number of facts in fact set
Item1=EMIG-IE is 1st tag
Item2=DEPO-IE is 2nd tag
The Count must match the number of tags and for each Item there must be a matching later [FCT-... definition (like yours).

I have tried various alternatives.
The successful ones (with both Deportation and Emigration definitions) only allow Deportation to have one Place field, but nothing gets saved or exported in Gedcom for the Deportation facts. So GedStar Pro would import nothing.
So I think you must be mistaken, and did use EMIG when you got some degree of success.

Bear in mind that just changing a Fact Set file does not change FH until it is closed and re-opened.
So maybe you changed the file to DEPO, but FH was still using an earlier incarnation?
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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 25 Jan 2017 15:33

Brent is using the techniques described in Knowledge Base > Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates under Custom Fact Fields.
He is simply using the {note} code to add the Fact local Note text to the Sentence.

But a better technique is to use meta-fields that are labelled Note text.
For his example that Note would look like :-
Ship Name: 'ABC'
Arrival Port: Port Adelaide, SA, Australia
Arrival Date: dd/mm/yyyy


The Sentence Template would be like :-
< on the ship {=GetLabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Ship Name: ")}>< to {=GetLabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Arrival Port: ")}><, arriving {=GetLabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Arrival Date: ")}>

Which would produce the Sentence :-
on the ship 'ABC' to Port Adelaide, SA, Australia, arriving dd/mm/yyyy

The advantages of this technique are explained in the KB article.
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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 25 Jan 2017 17:44

tatewise wrote: Bear in mind that just changing a Fact Set file does not change FH until it is closed and re-opened.
So maybe you changed the file to DEPO, but FH was still using an earlier incarnation?
What you say here would fit exactly with my suspicion today that my custom field worked fine yesterday until I exited fh and reopened it.
Unfortunately all I knew at the time was that I had had it working. And it kept disappearing. I am sorry to have taken your time. But it does now make sense.

What a pity - but thank you for taking the time!

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 26 Jan 2017 11:01

Being off work gives one time to think. I suspect the answer to both these supplementary questions will be no. But I would like to ask.
tatewise wrote: That works (up to a point) because it has 'stolen' the EMIG Gedcom fact tag and given it the Name Deportation.
Thus it is displayed in FH as the Deportation Event but is employing the EMIG Gedcom tag.
Internally FH allows the EMIG an IMMI tags to have two Place fields, so that all works..
Your pointing this out Mike, makes me wonder whether it acceptable to fh for one to put another version of a standard fact into the custom fact folder with another label? Can I use Emigraton twice with different labels and sentences?
Or is the separation of fact types into different folders merely a device to prevent the editing of standard facts and make it possible in the custom folder?

The second question about referencing in sentences should really go in another thread -
tatewise wrote: But a better technique is to use meta-fields that are labelled Note text.
For his example that Note would look like :-
Ship Name: 'ABC'
Arrival Port: Port Adelaide, SA, Australia
Arrival Date: dd/mm/yyyy


The Sentence Template would be like :-
< on the ship {=GetLabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Ship Name: ")}>< to {=GetLabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Arrival Port: ")}><, arriving {=GetLabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Arrival Date: ")}>

Which would produce the Sentence :-
on the ship 'ABC' to Port Adelaide, SA, Australia, arriving dd/mm/yyyy

The advantages of this technique are explained in the KB article.
I did not use any of the more complex note formatting in TMG. So I am learning something new here.
I think it means that in a custom Event Deportation I can auto generate the word To= in the Note field or even Train= to save myself typing things out again and again when repeatedly entering data from the same shipping or deportation list? (I myself am not doing this)

But that these codes and referencing are related only to the presentation of data in Reports?

Is there any way of cross referencing a Place which is recorded in a Note to the list of Place records in fh?

I think there isnt. And as a follow up, would it be possible to ask Calico Pie on the Forum wish list to lift the restriction and allow people to make a custom Event or Events modelled on Emigration? It seems an arbitrary restriction. Understandable because of export, but unecessary.

In genealogical terms Calico Pie may think it odd and unneeded. But I find spelling difficult in English. And overseas places are even worse. Polish place names for examples: Bydgoszcz or with Polish characters Działdowo. I want to keep my place entries correct and uniform. Every time one retypes one has to faff about or may accidentally get it wrong. The auto text entry in fh helps with that. But only if one has a Place field.

The Place records in fh also help standardise places with multiple names, changed when regimes fell or when boundaries were moved in 1918 and 1945. One wants to avoid constantly retyping place names.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 26 Jan 2017 11:03

I have just realised that KB means Knowledge Base.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 26 Jan 2017 11:51

No, you cannot get two version copies of the EMIG standard fact with different labels. :(
If you could, then I would have said so. That is why I said 'stolen' rather than 'copied'.

Yes, this should go in another thread, but I will let you off, unless it turns into a lengthy discussion.

The Sentence Template primarily applies to Narrative Reports but also composes the Sentence box of each Fact.
I think the labelled meta-fields improve exported data, and offer the possibility of easier identification in other products.
I understand your point about Place names, and the benefit of auto-completion to ensure consistency.
You are correct that such meta-fields cannot be linked to Place records.
It is unlikely that the idea of a 2nd Place field for other Facts would get implemented, but you can ask.

One way of getting Place name consistency in a meta-field is to first enter the name in the real Place field to benefit from the auto-completion, and then copy it to the meta-field, before entering the desired real Place field name.
Another way is to use two custom facts such as Deported From and Deported To, which therefore has two Place fields, and two Date fields for departure and arrival. This is what FTM does, as can be seen in the Tools > Fact Types > Extended Set that lists Arrival, Departure, Destination & Origin among its custom facts.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 26 Jan 2017 12:25

Thanks Mike for the suggestion about writing in place names. Then copying and pasting. Very good idea.

The two Event solution works with Emigration - and travel too - Not with Deportation.

Because the Immigration Event Place has to be attached to the person record as a Place they actually reached.
And in fh (I think) they need a date too to hold them in the right chronological order?

Even at its simplest the political reality is that boats or trains destined for a place did not always reach it. Due to enemy action or diversion. They might be torpedoed (Italian deportees from UK on Arandora Star) and even if the transport arrives, individual deportees may not - they may die or escape en route.

Which is why I seriously wanted to have this dual place, custom Deportation Event in the first place.
And have appreciated your trouble with my useless attempts. This thread had a real purpose for me.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by tatewise » 26 Jan 2017 12:33

It could be argued that makes having separate facts even more attractive.
i.e.
Some could be Deported From and then Deportation Arrival.
Others may be Deported From but then Died or Escaped enroute, with no Deportation Arrival.
Other variations on this theme are possible.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by E Wilcock » 26 Jan 2017 13:09

But one doesnt dont know about escape or dying. You know only that the destination was a place.
I should have made it clear that everything is source dependent.
A quick look on ancestry will probably reveal that better records are kept when people are deported, than when they arrive.

And tho most family researchers will only have one or two ancestors who were deported (transported), some of us have a great number of deportees because we are using genealogy software for more general historical pursuits.

My husband points out sadly that what one really needs in the modern world is a standard GEDCOM Event for disappeared as in Argentina or in German Verschollen - Nothing more heard. But my custom sources were going to be Deportation, Imprisonment and Release.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by becca » 30 Nov 2019 07:26

Just curious if anyone has resolved the Gedsite issue with immigration/emig tags having 2 places. I generate a table for my website listing ancestors who immigrated. I would like to include a column indicating from where, i.e., _PLAC value. So far, I have not found a way to access that field within Gedsite. This doesn't occur often enough to be worth a lot of smoke and mirrors, creating a custom tag, moving the "from" value to the new tag, remembering to enter two tags everytime I discover new information, etc. Just figured it was worth asking if anyone found an easy workaround.

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Re: Copying or creating an Event

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 30 Nov 2019 08:53

Short answer is: yes, it's possible and very straightforward. However, I don't use Gedsite any more and can't remember how I did it; but I think I used to include a column for Location 2. (I also used Mike Tate's Export Gedcom plugin, which might be part of the solution.)

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