* Custom Fact does not fully process

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LarryC
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Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by LarryC » 20 Nov 2015 23:42

Various online location, including personal 100K person genealogy site, http://chesebro.net, The Next Generation of Genealogy Sitebuilding, RootsWeb, MyHeritage, Ancestry, LDS FamilySearch, WIKI Tree, GeneaNet process my GEDCOMS BEFORE FH6 without problems.

I use a custom desktop computer with Win 7 Pro and 8 MB RAM

My previous Genealogy Program – FTMv16 through 2014
GEDCOM heading:
0 HEAD
1 SOUR FTW
2 VERS Family Tree Maker (16.0.350)
2 NAME Family Tree Maker for Windows
2 CORP MyFamily.com, Inc.
3 ADDR 360 W 4800 N
4 CONT Provo, UT 84604
3 PHON (801) 705-7000
1 DEST FTM
1 DATE 26 DEC 2012
1 CHAR ANSI
1 SUBM Unknown
1 FILE C:\Users\Larry\Desktop\Chesebro.GED
1 GEDC
2 VERS 5.5
2 FORM LINEAGE-LINKED

My present registered Genealogy Program – FH6
GEDCOM heading:
0 HEAD
1 SOUR FAMILY_HISTORIAN
2 VERS 6.0
2 NAME Family Historian
2 CORP Calico Pie Limited
1 FILE C:\Users\Larry\Desktop\Chesebro.ged
1 GEDC
2 VERS 5.5
2 FORM LINEAGE-LINKED
2 _VAR DSR
1 CHAR ANSI
1 DEST GED55
1 SUBM @U1@
1 NOTE Ancestors and descendants of the 1630 Winthrop Fleet immigrant and 1649 1st settler of European orign of Stonington, CT William Chesebrough and the ancestors and descendants of Larry and Nancy (Cagle) Chesebro'.
1 COPR ©2005-2015
1 _UID {7F1CA405-A4F1-44AB-8C1A-187C842234F4}
1 _ROOT @I1@
0 @I1@ INDI


Problem 1

Custom Fact in FH6 .fh_proj file and/or GEDCOM does not fully process. However, the process is correct using above referenced FTM GEDCOM processed at the online sites.
Over 1k problems.

FH6 GEDCOM entry for Military fact:
1 _MILT
2 DATE 1911
2 PLAC United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate, St Elmo, Fayette County, IL

FH6 Property Facts - Fact is not listed in 15 items

FH6 Individual Records - Fact is listed as follows:
+ _MILT United States Army, listed as soldier on child’s birth certificate
* DATE 1911
* PLAC St Elmo, Fayette County, IL

FH6 GEDCOM fails to process fact online!


FTM GEDCOM entry for Military fact:
1 _MILT
2 DATE 1911
2 PLAC United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate, St Elmo, Fayette County, IL, USA

Confirmation FTM GEDCOM processed OK – from Ancestry:
http://person.ancestry.com/tree/5222219 ... 4397/facts
“Military
1911, United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate, St Elmo, Fayette County, IL”
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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by tatewise » 21 Nov 2015 11:15

Hi Larry, welcome to the FHUG.

The problem is that according to the Knowledge Base > GEDCOM 5.5 specification what you have is a "user-defined tag", but it is NOT a user-defined/custom Fact/Event that requires the EVEN and TYPE tags.

FH is pedantic about GEDCOM formal compatibility, whereas other genealogy products are less rigorous.

I have experimented with your "FH6 GEDCOM entry for Military fact" and FH V6 treats it as Knowledge Base > Uncategorised Data Field (UDF) displayed on the All tab slightly differently from your example:

Code: Select all

- * _MILT
    * DATE 1911
    * PLAC United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate, St Elmo, Fayette County, IL
The solution, which should work for all products, is to use the GEDCOM user-defined/custom Event format:

1 EVEN
2 TYPE MILT
2 DATE 1911
2 PLAC United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate, St Elmo, Fayette County, IL

You can use a TYPE of either MILT or _MILT or Military or any other alphanumeric code, and FH V6 will display exactly that in the Facts tab.

However, some of what is recorded as PLAC is not strictly Place information, so a better format might be:

1 EVEN
2 TYPE MILT
2 DATE 1911
2 PLAC St Elmo, Fayette County, IL
2 NOTE United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by LarryC » 21 Nov 2015 18:14

Thanks for the response although too much of it may be too technical for me to understand, especially the "why". Even more problematic, I see no way to assign some of the criteria you mention. I can easily create a custom Fact with the needed attributes, e.g., value, place, date, note & etc. for future use but that does not fix thousands of existing entries.

And, I have to ask why FH6 is so different from all, all I have ever experienced and listed in my post, that process the GEDCOM lines with the intended results. And, this will bring-up another future problem for me in removing corrected UDF entries!

BTW, I had to double check my understanding of "pedantic" as I remembered it meaning something like closed mindedness and sure enough it is even more so. Adherence to narrow-minded arbitrary sets of rules appears to really limit universally accepted and flexible rules. OMG what have I gotten into?

With all that said and looking for help I am sure others may need since my example is not pedantic in other genealogy programs, will replacing the GEDCOM line 1 _MILT with 1 EVEN followed by 2 _MILT (an additional line) meet FH6's "arbitrary set of rules"? And, if so, now that I have learned about and been referred to "Plug-Ins" by tech support re a CONC line problem in FH6, is there a plug-in to fix the problem?
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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by tatewise » 21 Nov 2015 20:59

Sorry that the response was too technical. Since you presented many technical details of the GEDCOM file, and used many products, I assumed you were technically aware of such intricacies.

The GEDCOM specification, just like most other specifications world wide, is itself quite pedantic, and FH V6 is simply adhering tightly to that specification. If all other products did likewise, then these problems would not arise. The world would be a very different place if specifications were not followed. We would have no Internet and no computers that could share anything.

Yes, there is a Plugin to fix the problem.
First you must use Tools > Fact Types to define a custom Fact with a Name such as Military, but there are restrictions on the characters allowed.
Then use the Change Any Fact Tag Plugin and on the Individual Records tab select:
Source Tag Set: <UDF Tags>
Source Tag Name: _MILT UDF Tag
Target Tag Set: Custom
Target Tag Name: Military (as defined in Fact Types)
Then click the _MILT UDF Tag to MILT button below

BTW: I dispute that all the products you quote handle that form of tag, because Ancestry for one does not. Yes, it supports the special case of 1 _MILT but in the general case of 1 _WXYZ it discards the tag without warning. I suspect that such Ancestry proprietary tags are supported by other products due to the user base of Ancestry but they are not GEDCOM compatible. If you use the 1 EVEN and 2 TYPE construct, then most if not all the products will recognise it. Ancestry certainly does.

I would hazard a guess that the thousands of existing entries are multiple repeats of a handful of such Ancestry tags, and can be fixed with a handful of runs of the Tools > Fact Types command and Change Any Fact Tag Plugin.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by LarryC » 22 Nov 2015 17:24

Thanks Mike - I will try the process you suggested and update this thread.

BTW if I understand you saying Ancestry does not support _MILT as entered in my GEDCOM hoisted by Ancestry, please note I posted confirmation that is does:

http://person.ancestry.com/tree/5222219 ... 4397/facts new link but it will time-out so I've attached a screen shot)
“Military
1911, United States Army listed as soldier on child's birth certificate, St Elmo, Fayette County, IL”
Attachments
_MILT.png
_MILT.png (170.97 KiB) Viewed 2848 times
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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by tatewise » 22 Nov 2015 18:39

Larry, please read what I say carefully.
I said: "Yes, it supports the special case of 1 _MILT but in the general case of 1 _WXYZ it discards the tag without warning."
In other words Ancestry uses a handful of user-defined tags such as 1 _MILT (Military) via Add Fact, but they are NOT valid GEDCOM Facts (Events/Attributes). If any other user-defined tag such as 1 _ABCD or 1 _WXYZ is imported to Ancestry then it discards the tag without warning. Whereas, FH at least retains all such tags as UDF.

Just because other products accept that handful of Ancestry user-defined tags, does not make them valid GEDCOM Facts, but just shows the power of heavyweight products to jeopardise standard specifications. What do you suggest everyone does? Disregard GEDCOM 5.5, and bow to the Ancestry variant dialect instead, or try and persuade them to adhere to the standard?

Note that Ancestry have a habit of changing things without notice, and do not publish their interface formats such as their GEDCOM dialect, whereas GEDCOM 5.5 despite a few deficiencies is at least is stable and public.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by LarryC » 22 Nov 2015 20:30

I understand your argument re standards but re who accepts what goes to not Ancestry as the 'culprit' but to others way before they started processing submitters GEDCOMs. Banner Blue, the original developer of FTM is the only GEDCOM producing application I ever used, beginning with v3, and they, back in the late 19980's or early 1990's's, with the predecessor GEDCOM version to GEDCOM 5.5 and subsequently to 5.5, processed my now infamous _MILT fact. The best WEB producing software, TNG, was developed, as I have been told, without regard to Ancestry 'standards'. My problem is that, after being a 'beta' tester for FTM when Ancestry got involved trying to improve it with net Framework, which they were not qualified, in 2008, I elected to continue using FTM v16 (2007) because FTM from 2008 through 2014 was terrible. However, I goofed setting-up a tablet inadvertently "re-installed" rather than copied FTM v16 to a disk and now cannot use v16. I knew from past consideration that The Master Genealogist was my other choice, if not for price, but then found out about its demise when considering the FTM replacement. So, I now must make FH6 work for me - including the completion of some major changes from early FTM entry mistakes I made with "Place or Description" Fact entries (they should have been made "Description / Place" on the single entry line). That is why, as you commented, many "Places" in my GEDCOM are incorrect.

Now the really good news and thanks! I have resolved 960 instances of _MILT fact problems. I truly appreciate your effort to guide me correctly in the GEDCOM problem resolution THANK YOU! Your plug-in worked as best it could with my messed up description/place data. I think your plug-in also answers the future question I mentioned about removing individual UDF entries.

Am I correct that I can use your plug-in to remove all instances of the now unused _MILT UDF entries?

I want to use your plug-in to correct or improve other custom facts but need to know what the differences are between "Custom", "(custom Facts)", and "(Defined Tags)" options. Is there an 'instruction' or help page for all your plug-in's options.

BTW, more pedantic explanations I assume, I did have 7 errors, out of the 960 changes. All were because the original date was in the form "BET x-x-x AND y-y-y" where the capitalization was not accepted. I changed them to "x-x-x - y-y-y" and FH6 automatically changed to, and accepted, "btw x-x-x and y-y-y". Arbitrarily, just "x-x-x - y-y-y" seems sufficient :)

Still - THANKS for you great help!
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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by LarryC » 22 Nov 2015 20:41

One more question! How do I save, in FH6 for later opening individual records, the Results Log the changes? Help only briefly tells how to view or delete "Logs" but nothing about saving. I did save a .csv file but my work would be a lot easier correcting the Place errors using the Log File.
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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by tatewise » 22 Nov 2015 22:09

Larry, I am glad to hear that you are committed to using FH V6, and making good progress.

FYI: If you still need to transfer GEDCOM data to other products such as TNG, FTM, Ancestry & FindMyPast, then my Export Gedcom File Plugin converts FH GEDCOM dialect to the GEDCOM dialect of many other products with minimal loss of data.

"resolved 960 instances of _MILT fact problems"
I am not sure which problems, or what Plugin you used, but I am happy that you are happy.

If you used Change Any Fact Tag to convert the _MILT UDF tags into Custom Military Events then those UDF entries have already gone! That is the primary purpose of the Plugin. See Knowledge Base > Handling Unrecognised Data Fields.

Most of my Plugins have a Help & Advice button. Did you try it? See also Knowledge Base > Plugin Help and Advice.
For Change Any Fact Tag :-
The Individual Recs tab explains the options for that tab including <Custom Facts>, <Defined Tags>, etc.
The Status Tab and Log Files tab explains all about Log Files.
The Result Set tab explains about the Result Set which can only be saved to .csv files.
The interactive clickable Result Set is very different from the static historical Log Files.
So to use the Result Set clickable links you must complete all work before closing FH - Sorry!

The GEDCOM format for such Dates is BTW x-x-x AND y-y-y but is case insensitive.
There is also BEF x-x-x and AFT x-x-x and FRM x-x-x and TO x-x-x and FRM x-x-x TO y-y-y and others.
See the Date Entry Assistant dialogue obtained by clicking the [...] button to right of any Date field.
FH V6 does accept a few other formats, but converts them to GEDCOM format.
See also Knowledge Base > Fixing Dates and Date Phrases.

You may find Knowledge Base > Check Project Statistics & Exceptions useful, and in this case the Result Set is preserved by the Show Project Statistics Plugin indefinitely. (So in principle I could add that feature to the Change Any Fact Tag Plugin too.)

I should have mentioned it earlier, but have a look through Knowledge Base > Key Features for Newcomers.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by LarryC » 23 Nov 2015 20:55

I did use the recommended plug-in.

I look forward to more helpful Plug-in Help. I have been quite disappointed in FH6 Help files so far and hope your plug-in notes are better.

I will review the UDF report or rerun the search for UDFs to ensure the _MILT problem is no longer recorded.

Your Export Gedcom File causes me to ask why it is needed and, if needed, how does it differentiate between TNG, Ancestry, WorldConnect and FTM?

Note that the between date problem was the opposite of your definition. The problem was that the text was upper case and when re-entered without the text, as xxxx - yyyy, the entry was accepted and returned with lower case text, btw xxxx and yyyy
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Re: Custom Fact does not fully process

Post by tatewise » 23 Nov 2015 22:31

The Date problem is NOT that it was in upper case but that it started with BET instead of BTW.
FH does display that text in lower case, and Months in title case, but in GEDCOM they are case insensitive but usually in upper case.

Why is Export Gedcom File needed?
The short answer is that GEDCOM 5.5 is NOT fully implemented correctly by most products, and each often have their own user-defined tag extensions, as per our discussions to date.
The longer answer:
  • Most products do NOT implement GEDCOM 5.5 fully, so workarounds must be devised.
  • FH has valid user-defined tags, but they are often NOT recognised by other products, so may need converting to standard GEDCOM.
  • Sometimes FH user-defined tags can be mapped to other product user-defined tags.
  • FH uses Media image Face/Detail Frames that need converting for most other products.
  • FH V6 encodes its GEDCOM file in Unicode UTF-16 that is NOT supported by many products.
How does it differentiate between different products?
There is a dialogue option to choose the desired target product, or if that is not currently supported then the GEDCOM standard options plus Extra/Other Options often work well.

Where possible, I investigate each product in depth, using free versions or free trials, and often assisted by FHUG members who use those products. I have a test Project that uses most FH/GEDCOM structures in order to explore other product capabilities.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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