* Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Importing from or exporting to another genealogy program. This is the place to ask.
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cwshonk
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Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by cwshonk » 20 Sep 2014 17:21

Down loaded trial version Thursday evening (currently using TMG). After import FH reports 7593 sources; while TMG shows 9849 citations. I've looked thru the posts in the import/export section of this forum but haven't yet resolved this problem. Overall I'm very impressed with FH. I don't want to have to identify the 2256 missing citations and manually enter them. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by davidm_uk » 20 Sep 2014 17:52

Multiple citations per source?

FH allows this, even encourages it rather the duplication of sources. No idea about TMG.
David Miller - researching Miller, Hare, Walker, Bright (mostly Herts, Beds, Dorset and London)

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 20 Sep 2014 17:55

Have you looked at Knowledge Base > Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG)?

Have you installed FH V5.0.11 from Knowledge Base > Family Historian Version 5.0.11 Upgrade?

You have used two different terms 7593 Source Records in FH and 9849 Citations in TMG.

I only have the TMG trial V9 with the sample database but all the Sources seem to import to FH Ok.
In TMG I use Tools > Master Source List which shows exactly the same Sources as in the FH Records Window on the Sources tab.

It would be quite normal for there to be more Citations than Sources because often one Source Record is cited by many Facts (TMG Tags).

If you look at the FH Records Window on the Sources tab the Citations column counts them.
The sum of those counts probably equals your 9849 Citations in TMG.
I have a Plugin that counts all Citations giving a 476 total that exactly matches the sum of those counts.
You can download this Plugin from my OneDrive at List All Citations for All Sources or from the Attachment below.
[ ATTACHMENT DELETED as superseded by Where Used Record Links in Plugin Store. ]

If you check the TMG File > Project Summary does the number of Sources match?

In the TMG trial V9 the Project Summary seems to match up very well.
People matches FH Individual Records
Events is only 1 different from FH View > Standard Queries > All Facts
Sources matches FH Source Records
Repositories matches Fh Repository Records
BUT
Citations is 591 whereas the FH List All Citations for All Sources count is 476
Maybe the discrepancy is to do with Witnesses some of which only transfer to FH as Notes and any Citations would get lost.
Most of these are Witnessed Census events and when those are taken into account the Citation counts match very closely.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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cwshonk
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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by cwshonk » 20 Sep 2014 18:10

In TMG from 'Report->List Of->Sources->List of Sources' selecting "all Sources' in pop up window
shows 563 sources; this agrees with 'Sources Records - Records Window' in FH (563 sources shown)

In TMG from 'Report>List Of->Citations->List of Citations' selecting 'all citations' in pop up window
Shows 9849 citations; IN FH running the query 'Source Records - All' reports 7593 sources

I have looked at the knowledge base (and am continuing to do so). I spent about 3 hours Thursday evening and 6 hours today with FH; most of that time has been exploring the features of the program.

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 20 Sep 2014 18:42

My TMG trial V9 has expired and won't let me use Reports.

However, for me the number of Sources matches perfectly:
TMG Tools > Master Source List lists 39 Sources
TMG File > Project Summary says Sources 39
FH the Records Window > Sources lists 39 Source Records with a Citations count column
FH Query Source Records - All lists same 39 Source Records with same Citations count column

Did you scroll down the Records Window > Sources list in Record Id order?
( I am surprised you only see 563. It must be same as Source Records - All list. )

What does your TMG File > Project Summary say for Sources and Citations?

What does your TMG Tools > Master Source List say as how many selected?
This also has a Cited column to compare with FH Sources list Citations column.

If you study a Source where Cited > Citations you will find the cause.
In FH use Plugin List All Citations for a Selected Source.
In TMG use whatever will list all Citations for that Source.

I am sure any discrepancy is due to Witnessed Census and similar event Citations.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by LornaCraig » 20 Sep 2014 19:43

Mike,
The questioner said they downloaded the trial version of FH. As far as I know the trial version does not allow use of plugins, so that option may not be available to them. (Apologies if I am wrong about that.)
Lorna

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 20 Sep 2014 21:22

Sorry, yes, overlooked that.
In which case it is more tricky to list all Citations.
Knowledge Base > Facts linked to a source should work.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by BillH » 20 Sep 2014 21:50

I thought this was a bit odd.

'Sources Records - Records Window' in FH (563 sources shown)
running the query 'Source Records - All' reports 7593 sources

Why would there be such a large descrepency? On my file the source records list has a high record ID of 2598 and the query has 2559 records in the result set. I assumed this was because some source records have been deleted and their ID's not reused.

If there really are just 563 sources, then the query showing 7593 sources seems unusual.

Bill

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 21 Sep 2014 09:08

Exactly right, the largest Record Id is equal to or greater than the number of records.

The Standard Query Source Records - All has no filter, so lists ALL Source Records, that MUST be the same as the Sources tab of the Records Window. They simply cannot possibly differ.

Another way of getting Record Counts in FH is File > File Statistics which for the sample project agrees with the TMG File > Project Summary.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by cwshonk » 21 Sep 2014 11:20

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Perhaps I should have stated my question in more general terms. How do I validate the integrity of the data after transfer from TMG to FH.?
My approach has been to compare the source and citation lists, compare ancestor charts, select key individuals in the family tree as well as random individuals, generate reports in both programs and read them side by side on the screen.

I'll purchase the full version soon (I have to leave to visit family shortly) so plugins will soon be available. I have done several imports of my data so that I could renumber individuals sources etc. and evaluate the results. The import I'm presently working with won't be the final import from TMG

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 21 Sep 2014 11:51

The techniques you have adopted are probably the best available.
(There is no need to renumber records.)

What concerned several of us was the discrepancy between 563 Source Records and 7593 Source Records - All when those figures in FH MUST be identical.

Different genealogy programs use different structures and techniques to record the data.
This inevitably leads to problems migrating data from one to another (such as TMG to FH).
So there is no universal way of validating one against another ~ there are just too many combinations.

You need to keep your TMG database available for several months, if not longer.
If there is any doubt about specific FH items, then compare them with the TMG items.
Eventually, you will build up a picture of what is OK and what has not migrated.

That knowledge should be added to the Knowledge Base > Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG) and reported to Calico Pie.

As far as TMG to FH is concerned, Witnesses and associated Citations are a problematic area.
A bigger problem is that all Relationship Tag Group Types and their Citations are omitted.
I will add some notes to the Knowledge Base about these and any other migration problems.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by cwshonk » 26 Sep 2014 18:36

"A bigger problem is that all Relationship Tag Group Types and their Citations are omitted."
I exported a list of all citations from TMG and then sorted them by Tag name in a spreadsheet, then had the spread sheet count the number of occurrences of each tag type.

These add up to 9849 source citations; In FH running the query 'Source Records - All' reports 7593 sources; A difference of 2256 source citations.
The Sum of the number of source citations for the tags below is 2256.
Mother-Ado: Mother-Bio: Mother-Fst: Father-Ado: Father-Bio: Father-Fst: Father-Ste:

In TMG from 'Report->List Of->Sources->List of Sources' selecting "all Sources' in pop up window shows 563 sources;
this agrees with 'Sources Records - Records Window' in FH (563 sources shown)

This indicates that the hypothesis that FH does not import source citations for parent-child relationship tags in TMG is correct

In TMG I have used these tags cite the source(s) for the parent-child relationship. In FH when I state that Robert Davenport is the son of Thomas Davenport, how do I show the original source(s) for that relationship?

Thank you for your assistance with this matter. I look forward to a long term relationship with the Family Historian.

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by LornaCraig » 26 Sep 2014 19:09

In FH when I state that Robert Davenport is the son of Thomas Davenport, how do I show the original source(s) for that relationship?
This thread is relevant to your question: Sourcing the parent-child relationship (11304)

Personally if I have a birth certificate or baptism record showing that A is the child of B, and have cited that as the source for the birth or baptism, I don't normally add any more evidence for the parent-child relationship. However if there is reason for doubt (for example if the father's name on the birth certificate and the father's name in the child's marriage certificate are different) I make a note and use the Where within Source field to specify which part of a source is relevant to the question. So if the source is a marriage certificate then Where within Source would be 'Bride/Groom's father's name'.

I have not used TMG myself so I don't know quite how it handles this.
Lorna

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 26 Sep 2014 19:35

My analysis concurs with cwshonk.
I have written a small Plugin that synthesises the TMG File > Project Summary statistics from the imported FH data.
Click on the TMG File Project Summary attachment below to give it a try.

The main omissions on importing from TMG to FH are likely to be the Citations that were on Relationship Tags.
In cwshonk's project there are 2256 such missing Citations that will take a lot of fixing.

The other omissions are now documented in Knowledge Base > Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG).
I have reported them all to Calico Pie and they are being investigated.

The root of the problem is that Knowledge Base > GEDCOM 5.5, on which FH is built, does not support Citations on Parent - Child links.

In addition to the thread identified by Lorna, I can offer two other manual solutions, but what you really need is an automated method.

(1) Family Record Citations
This adds the Citations to the Family Record that in GEDCOM & FH holds the Parent - Child links.
To see the Family Records in the Record Lists use View > Record Links > Families.
To always show the Families tab, use Tools > Preferences > Records Window and set all Options to Always show.

The easiest way to add a Citation is to first double-click the Family Record name to open its Property Box.
Ensure the yellow scroll Show Sources button is enabled to display the yellow Sources pane.
Immediately select the All tab and <whole record> should appear in the Sources box.
Use the Add Citation button to select an existing Source which should have imported OK.
You will need to add a Note to the Citation to explain which Parent - Child link it supports.

(2) Family Attribute with Citations
An alternative solution is to create a custom Family Attribute for a general Relationship fact, or perhaps for each Mother-Bio, Father-Bio, etc relationship.
Then these Attributes can be added to the Family Record similar to Marriage and Divorce events.
Attributes have a value that can name the Parent and Child and the type of relationship (Biological, Adopted, etc).
They also allow Citations, so this method closely resembles the TMG methodology.

(3) Plugin Method
I know this may be too advanced at this stage, but may be a longer term solution.
If TMG can export some form of machine readable list of Relationships and Citations a Plugin could probably import them in whichever of the above formats you prefer.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 27 Sep 2014 21:58

If you are interested, I have written a prototype Plugin as per option (3) above.

It reads a TMG Report > List of Citations saved to CSV format, and creates FH Citations similar to option (1) above.

I favour that style as I suspect most Children of one Family often have the same Source Citation.
The Plugin collapses such Citations into one, with a Note listing each Parent-Child relationship, e.g.
Relation: John SMITH [[(I1)]]. Role: Father-Biological. Janet SMITH [[(I3)]]. Role: Child.
( However, it could be adapted to create Family Attributes as per option (2) above. )

To create the Citations Report follow these instructions in TMG:
( The instructions are repeated when the Plugin is run. )

Use "Report > List of Citations" and click "Reset Default" if necessary.

Choose "Save to : File type : Comma Separated Value (CSV)"
and set output "File name : ...\\Report_output\\Citations.CSV"

Click the "Options..." button and set the following:
"General" tab: "List type" select "Columnar"
"Names" tab: "Names :" select "Surnames caps" (optional)
"Output Columns" tab:
Column 8 choose "Citation Memo"
Column 9 choose "Surety 1"
Alter every "Width" to "90" or more except "Source", "Date" & "Surety"

Click "OK" and then "Create Report".

Copy the "Citations.CSV" file to the imported TMG Project's "Public" folder.

An updated TMG File Project Summary and the TMG Import Relationship Citations Plugin are attached below.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by tatewise » 01 Oct 2014 20:02

I could not resist the temptation to implement option (2) Family Attribute with Citations above using the same Citations.csv report.

So attached are the updated pair of Plugins that support both options.
Attachments
TMG Import Relationship Citations.fh_lua
(11.38 KiB) Downloaded 140 times
TMG File Project Summary.fh_lua
(11.66 KiB) Downloaded 113 times
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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cwshonk
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Re: Import from TMG - Missing Some Citations

Post by cwshonk » 02 Oct 2014 23:31

Thanks Mike; the plugins work well and the information is very useful.

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