*import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Importing from or exporting to another genealogy program. This is the place to ask.
Linda Reinfeld
Diamond
Posts: 62
Joined: 04 Nov 2014 17:34
Family Historian: V6.2

import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby Linda Reinfeld » 06 Jun 2019 23:01

My sort-date match brought up this problem but I thought it deserved a new topic.

I have a person who has the following tags/events in TMG
Birth
Occupation
Partner 1996 (2 principals)
Residence 1997 (2 principals)
...
Marriage 2011 (2 principals)
MarriageNotes 2011 (one day later) (2 principals)

Partner is a tag I made up to show partners. They were not married at that point. I put the tag in the marriage group (in TMG) and gave it a GEDCOM name of MARR. If I just choose it as an event FH does not recognize a partnership and will not allow 2 principals in any subsequent fact.
FH does not like the Residence 1997 event for 2 principals that are not married.
These people were married in 2011.
FH still doesn't like their marriage because the MarriageNotes acts like a single event - not a shared event.

And when I look at the Property Box for this person there are 3 'marriages'. One has nothing except the 2 names. The second has the 1997 marriage with 2 names and the 3rd has the 2011 marriage with 2 names.

I am at a loss as to how to deal with same sex marriages and/or partnerships in FH. Any guidance is appreciated - however I do not like to change the data to fit the software (call someone married when they are not, they are partners)

Linda

DonF
Diamond
Posts: 78
Joined: 07 Dec 2014 00:31
Family Historian: V6.2
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby DonF » 07 Jun 2019 01:18

Linda,
I'm afraid you problem is caused by GEDCOM - the MARR tag is for "A legal, common-law, or customary event of creating a family unit of a man and a woman as husband and wife"

I'd suggest you have a look at https://www.tamurajones.net/SameSexMarr ... DCOM.xhtml for a good explantion of how to get around this issue in GEDCOM, but I have no idea if FH will let you do this

Don

User avatar
Jane
Site Admin
Posts: 7616
Joined: 01 Nov 2002 15:00
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Somerset, England
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby Jane » 07 Jun 2019 07:18

I am not quite clear what you are seeing, but same sex partnerships are easy just add the second person as a spouse and you can add two males or two females to a family.

From the Family Historian Help
How to Record Same Sex Relationships

Same sex spouses and partners can be added in the same way that other-sex spouses and partners are added. When you add a spouse or partner as a new record, Family Historian will usually assume by default that the spouse or partner of a man is female, and that the spouse or partner of a woman is male. If this assumption is wrong, simply change the person's sex to the correct one.

If you link an existing person as a spouse, the selection dialog may by default filter out males if you are looking for a spouse or partner for a man, or filter our females if looking for a spouse or partner fora woman. If you are looking to add a same-sex partner, change the filter to show all Individuals. Then you will be able to select the person you wish to link to.


The MARR fact should be a family fact and not an individual one, so this may be the problem, I have never used TMG but someone who has may be able to help further.
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."

User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 15916
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby tatewise » 07 Jun 2019 09:08

When dealing with scenarios such as this, there is no widely agreed standard for representing same-sex partnerships.
So each genealogy product has had to design its own solution, and similarly you have designed your own solution by making up the Partner (MARR) tag in TMG. Therefore, those data structures often do not migrate satisfactorily from product to product and will need adapting to match the target product (FH in this case) . I suspect you would have similar problems migrating to any other genealogy product. The same sorts of problem typically exist when moving data between other 'similar' products such as word-processors, spreadsheets, databases, etc.

To resolve the problem it would help if you could post snippets of the TMG GEDCOM file you recently exported covering the tags being discussed.

Also please post screenshots of the All tab fully expanded and with all data in view.
I am talking about the Individual Property Box for these two same-sex people.
In the All tab double-click the persons name twice so all data fields are shown.
In the header, hover over the vertical line between Record and Record Id until the cursor is left & right arrows.
Then left-click and drag right so all field names are visible, and if necessary make the Property Box window wider.
You can left click on [-] boxes to collapse data that is not relevant to this discussion.
To reveal the tags you are talking about, it may be necessary to click on the [ ] box on the right of Spouse family to show family facts.
You have supplied such screenshots before, but see Knowledge Base > Posting Topics for advice.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

Linda Reinfeld
Diamond
Posts: 62
Joined: 04 Nov 2014 17:34
Family Historian: V6.2

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby Linda Reinfeld » 08 Jun 2019 01:17

This post has been removed because it contains data about living people.
Thanks David
Even though there were 2 'marriages' they seem to be jumbled up together.

Here are the screen shots of the left-hand side of the people. The 3 'marriages' are too big to fit in one screen shot.
I've done them as attachments

If this isn't enough info I will send the property box data

Don - Thanks for the link. I will study it and see what I can do. Very helpful!

Thanks for the help
Linda
Last edited by Linda Reinfeld on 08 Jun 2019 12:28, edited 1 time in total.

Linda Reinfeld
Diamond
Posts: 62
Joined: 04 Nov 2014 17:34
Family Historian: V6.2

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby Linda Reinfeld » 08 Jun 2019 01:21

I should also add that at first I added my 'partner' tag as an EVEN (event) not a marriage.
But what happened then was that FH saw a residence tag with 2 unmarried people as principals, and didn't like that.
Same with the hobbies/interests and the marriagenotes tags.
That is why I changed to the 'partner' tag being a MARR tag.

Linda

User avatar
David2416
Famous
Posts: 131
Joined: 12 Nov 2017 16:37
Family Historian: V6.2

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby David2416 » 08 Jun 2019 05:15

Perhaps the names should be blocked out for any living persons? Just a thought

User avatar
Jane
Site Admin
Posts: 7616
Joined: 01 Nov 2002 15:00
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Somerset, England
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby Jane » 08 Jun 2019 11:39

Linda Reinfeld wrote:But what happened then was that FH saw a residence tag with 2 unmarried people as principals, and didn't like that.


It is worth remembering that being in a Family As Spouse, does not imply marriage in Family Historian only that they have some sort of relationship. You can set the couple to Unmarried Couple or Never Married as you like.
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."

User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 15916
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby tatewise » 08 Jun 2019 12:03

What appears to have happened is that the FH direct import has created three Family records instead of just one.
Two of them contain one MARRiage fact each.

Before trying to adjust anything make sure you have a backup.
To correct things you need to open the Records Window and on the Families tab locate those three Family records.
If the records are sorted into name order, then those three will be adjacent to one another.
Use the Edit > Merge/Compare Records command, first with one pair, and then the final pair, to create one Family record.
Take care that all the facts, citations, etc, are satisfactorily merged.

Then the TNG GEDCOM with Sort Dates will match better.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

Linda Reinfeld
Diamond
Posts: 62
Joined: 04 Nov 2014 17:34
Family Historian: V6.2

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby Linda Reinfeld » 08 Jun 2019 13:38

Jane

I do not see how FH can handle a partnership. I can identify any two people as married (same sex is OK); I can then change the status to 'never married'; however they are still reported as married in the Individual narrative. And, I assume, if they are transferred to another program (GedSite for website online) they will be identified as married. I think FH still considers them to be married.

How do I identify in a report or otherwise that they are not married?

When I tested this I tested within FH - I didn't do a transfer from TMG. I have 13 partnerships in TMG - just to let you know the extent of the problem. And it is only going to grow.

Linda

User avatar
LornaCraig
Megastar
Posts: 1485
Joined: 11 Jan 2005 17:36
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Oxfordshire, UK

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby LornaCraig » 08 Jun 2019 13:52

When you identified two people as married, did you do it by creating a marriage event? If so the existence of the event overrides the marriage status as set on the main tab of the Property Box. If you now delete the marriage event (on the Facts tab for one of the Individuals) you should find that the narrative report reads "He/she had a relationship with....".

If you simply add the 'spouse' name in the middle section of the main tab of the Property box of one of the partners without entering any marriage date there will be no marriage event, and the Never Married status will take effect in reports.
Lorna

jbtapscott
Famous
Posts: 232
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 17:52
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Corfu
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby jbtapscott » 08 Jun 2019 13:58

I can't speak for FH reports as I don't use them, but for GedSite (which I do use), I would have thought the creation / export of a Family "Partnership" Fact (much like a MARRage Fact) with the two Individuals on it would be handled by a "Partnership" tag in GedSite and you can then structure the sentence(s) there accordingly.
Brent Tapscott ~ researching the Tapscott and Wallace family history
Tapscott & Wallace family tree

User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 15916
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V6.2
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: import same-sex partner from TMG to FH

Postby tatewise » 08 Jun 2019 18:02

As others have said, there is a distinction in FH between creating a partnership using the Add Spouse/Partner link, and adding a Marriage Event. The Marriage Event specifically implies that a formal ceremony was held at the time and place stated. Without the Marriage Event it is just a partnership relationship as conditioned by the Status setting. For same sex formal ceremonies such as a Civil Partnership see Knowledge Base > Recording a Marriage/Civil Partnership that offers several options for handling civil unions, but it is necessary to recognise that there is no universally accepted standard method for such events that will be compatible across genealogy products.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry


Return to “Importing and Exporting”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest