*Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

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Jane
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Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 04 Mar 2019 09:38

Having just received Stephen and My DNA results on Ancestry and loading them into GedMatch, I wanted to record the information on my FH database.

What I have come up with is a custom fact with a note field to contain the information I need and a Query to cross reference the records.

The custom event has a note as follows

[[
Tested with:
Test Site Name:
GedMatch Details
Kit Id:
GedMatch Name:

Links
Shared Ancestor:
Shared Couple:
Primary Link:

<match>
</match>
]]

My idea is to fill in the above and use a Query to quickly pull up confirmed matches, I have attached the Fact set and the Query to this post. The match section will contain the Chromosome matching information from Gedmatch if available, for future use if I can work out the plugin.

The links will be the record ID's for the Family Record or Individual records.

If I need to add extra Primary links I can simply add additional Events for them.

I know some of you have been using DNA for a while I wondered what you thought of this method.
Attachments
DNA.fhf
(1.21 KiB) Downloaded 28 times
GedMatch.fhq
(1.49 KiB) Downloaded 32 times
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby tatewise » 04 Mar 2019 10:36

I'm not into DNA matching, but is there any merit in mapping this feature onto the existing DNA Markers Attribute in the built-in Extended Set instead of introducing another custom attribute?
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 04 Mar 2019 11:48

I did think about doing that, but as that one is designed to pick up from Family Tree Maker I was not sure how they would tie up and thought it might be better to keep them separate, it would be easier to write a conversion from one to the other that if you had both types muddled up?
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 04 Mar 2019 14:34

Jane I am going to seem dumb, but I dont understand what you are doing.
My husband and I have also recently had DNA tests. I understand the first bit to record the test with the subsequent Gedmatch info

[[
Tested with:
Test Site Name:
GedMatch Details
Kit Id:
GedMatch Name:

But not the next bit
Links
Shared Ancestor:
Shared Couple:
Primary Link:

<match>
</match>
]]

Nor your explanation,
"My idea is to fill in the above and use a Query to quickly pull up confirmed matches, I have attached the Fact set and the Query to this post. The match section will contain the Chromosome matching information from Gedmatch if available, for future use if I can work out the plugin.

The links will be the record ID's for the Family Record or Individual records."

You ask what other people have done. I am a beginner and totally in the dark. I had not downloaded the fh Attribute DNA, Mike, so didnt see it on the available list.

On my husbands tree I heard from John Doe that he was descended from Mary Wilcock. Our DNA has been most useful in revealing descendants of married daughters.
Since the DNA match related to Mary Wilcock, on Mary Wilcock's fh main note I just entered that she features a DNA match with John Doe. I entered John Doe's family research as a source and added the additional info from there. On his note I added he was the DNA manager of a third party Mary Smith.
A second DNA contact I entered only as a source "DNA tree of Mary Jones descendants of Clara Wilcock" I didnt enter her on my tree as an individual because I dont know her name. I know only that the aunt and mother of my correspondent both have matches with my husband.

A fh text search for DNA brings up the two women who have the notes plus the DNA sources.

However, you may well find that DNA matches dont always work out like that. My husband had a close match with a researcher who is no longer active - Luckilly that researcher used his real name. The most ardent and professional researcher of the family history recognised the name as that of a fellow genealogist with whom he had researched years ago in a Yorkshire archive. They were researching two Wilcock families in neighbouring towns but found no connection between the, The DNA match eventually indicated that the families were connected but be warned that may not be true. The DNA link may come through one of the wives. And where someone is deceased one may not have access to their tree. I can neither enter nor tag that researcher.

Where there are many cousin marriages as there are in German Jewish families, the total of DNA matches may become unrealistically large. There is no way one can ever be sure how to link the people on a tree.

I found the initial list of matches so confusing that I listed our matches in an Access database so they can be sorted by family lines. Ancestry has now improved its own sorting of multiple DNA matches and listing whom one has tried to contact.
But variations in the spelling of forenames and surnames mean that ancestry seems a bit useless at identifying overlap between two trees. That is, I can see the match on screen, but the ancestry computer wont let me link in my forbears unless I change the name. As has been mentioned on fh, ancestry allows only one name per person.

I would be interested in any advice and suggestions for using ancestry DNA or Gedmatch (perhaps on another part of the forum) As of yet we have discovered no long lost ancestors, only two new groups of descendants of Wilcock daughters. It is we who are passing the earlier information to others who lack it. And I have received no reply from anyone connected to my trees.

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 04 Mar 2019 15:00

The Idea with the links is to show the point or points where the people intersect on the tree, so for example

I have been in contact with a 3rd cousin on the tree. I know they link with one Ancestral Couple, so I will put that Family ID, when I run the query I will know where they intersect without having to run the How related, or if I have "holes", the link numbers are used by the Query to list the Matches I have recorded it will tell me the line they are on. In some cases you might not know the links such as your researcher, but the other information can still be recorded even against an some one added as an "Unrelated Individual" .

The Prime Link tells me who this match is against, this would normally be 1 for Stephen and 2 for me, but I have also recorded two cousins matches against each other as well. The software writer in me does not like to put text in when I can add a link which can be used.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby tatewise » 04 Mar 2019 15:32

As an aside, you don't need to download anything to get the Extended Set with the DNA Match Attribute, etc.
See Knowledge Base > Custom Facts from other Products for details.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby capnkeith » 04 Mar 2019 16:17

Jane,

This looks like just what I want, better than my named list. You might want to check your download and remove the "2" from Primary Link before too many people download it.
I didn't think you could move Ancestry DNA into other sites. I already have my DNA from another source in Gedmatch can I upload my Ancestry set as well. Be interesting if they were different :) or not :o
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 04 Mar 2019 16:47

Thanks Keith I have updated it

You can download the Ancestry data it's under the Settings option.

The output from the query looks like this (names scrubbed), but they are standard record links. This is quite handy as it make it's easy to select two records for the "How related" tool

2019-03-04_093428.jpg
2019-03-04_093428.jpg (64.15 KiB) Viewed 1214 times
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 04 Mar 2019 18:44

I am still completely in the dark.

After three years using fh intensively I still dont have a clue what to do with this list of hidden attributes.
I can see Gedmatch which is eclipsed and disabled. My attempts to rectify this are rejected.
What do I do?

I then seem to have 5 other undefined fact or attribute types. These are custom facts from TMG which I have been using in fh. So I have defined them. I have multiple projects but had wrongly imagined that defining a Tag in one project would serve for all.
This is clearly not the case.

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby tatewise » 04 Mar 2019 19:08

Please start a new thread on problematic Fact Types as it is nothing to do with the Subject and discussion will only confuse those interested in DNA techniques.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 05 Mar 2019 07:05

Mike, I know Jane's expertise and am trying to adopt her system. I will now repeat the downloads. My mistake as I thought the new attribute was called Gedmatch and I now realise it is called DNA.
No. More confusion as I dont know what it is called - Gedmatch I think after all. But I now have two of those Jane I will post a screen shot.

I also see that the attribute has not yet been downloaded so it seems likely I messed up the download yesterday.

Jane my understanding is that this attribute DNA is to be attached to three people - each of the couple from whom one has common descent and to the DNA contact whom one has added to fh as a new unrelated individual. Is this correct?
Or is the contact recorded only in the note field of the attribute?

How are you recording which of the children of the common ancestors each contact is descended from?

One of my uncertainties regards the term Gedmatch. Our Gedmatch numbers (Assigned Kit number) identify an Ancestry test, but I am not sure whether they are generated by ancestry to identify the raw data file, or by the Gedmatch site after uploading.

I dont have this Gedmatch number for contacts made via ancestry.

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 05 Mar 2019 07:37

Mike, I want to do as Jane does and I need to get this right.
Jane - I am sorry. I am still in trouble after downloading your new attribute.
I down loaded the new fact into facts/Custom Facts is this right?

If I go to Tools/Work with fact types, I have an Event called Gedmatch in Fact set DNA but it doesnt have your code in the note field.
Plus like yesterday I get the message that another field of this name is eclipsed disabled.

Gedmatch.JPG
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 05 Mar 2019 08:14

It looks like you already had an event called GedMatch, so I would delete the one from the Extended Set, which I suspect you may have entered.

Then open the GedMatch for the DNA and press the Advanced button and you should see details as below

2019-03-05_081122.jpg
2019-03-05_081122.jpg (187.95 KiB) Viewed 1108 times


If you have any GedMatch facts set up before you installed the fact set, you will need to copy the note in manually, as I don't think it's added retrospectively.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 05 Mar 2019 08:21

The Fact Set is called DNA, the Fact is called GedMatch. I called the Fact Set DNA as moving forward I can see additional Fact types might be needed to store additional Information.

Out of interest, I have set up GedMatch information for my two principles with the GedMatch number and have attached our downloaded DNA zip files from Ancestry and a Map of the Ethnicity from Ancestry as media against the fact.

E Wilcock wrote:Jane my understanding is that this attribute DNA is to be attached to three people - each of the couple from whom one has common descent and to the DNA contact whom one has added to fh as a new unrelated individual. Is this correct?
Or is the contact recorded only in the note field of the attribute?

How are you recording which of the children of the common ancestors each contact is descended from?


No by using the links with in the note you only add a single GedMatch Fact to the "contact" the query will then pick up the information for the other records.

If you have a known link to the couple you can simply select the Root person and the Contact and use the Tools>How Related option.

You can of course add your own notes to the GedMatch Event below standard section for additional information.


E Wilcock wrote:One of my uncertainties regards the term Gedmatch. Our Gedmatch numbers (Assigned Kit number) identify an Ancestry test, but I am not sure whether they are generated by ancestry to identify the raw data file, or by the Gedmatch site after uploading.

I dont have this Gedmatch number for contacts made via ancestry.



If you don't have a GedMatch number for a person that is fine it can be left blank, the GedMatch numbers are allocated automatically by the GedMatch site, I included them in the Match information as you need them when using the site, if you are matching using Ancestry you will be using the "Test Site Name" to find them there.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 05 Mar 2019 08:41

Jane - Thank you for getting up so early and helping me with this. Appreciated, as I do fret stupidly over computers. I may need some time to sort it as have to go out today.
I did try to delete the Fact type using work with fact types and got a message that it was not a true deletion.
Should one delete unwanted facts in the program data file for Calico Pie fh facts?

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 05 Mar 2019 10:38

2019-03-05_103707.jpg
2019-03-05_103707.jpg (35.98 KiB) Viewed 1088 times


If you mean this message, what it means is you are deleting the definition of how to display the Fact, it does not delete the Fact in your records. So for example if you deleted the Fact set definition for Birth it would not delete all the births in your file.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby tatewise » 05 Mar 2019 10:47

Is this the message you got?

DeleteFactType.png
DeleteFactType.png (7.7 KiB) Viewed 1088 times

That is saying you are deleting the custom Fact Type Definition but doesn't delete the actual Facts in your Project.

BTW: I agree with Jane that you have added that GedMatch definition to the Extended Set because it is not included with the Extended Set initially installed with FH V6. Strictly speaking you don't have to delete it as it is <eclipsed> by the DNA version and therefore will not get used by your actual existing GedMatch facts. You should reconcile the two definitions before deletion, e.g. compare the Sentence Template and other definition settings between the two definitions. In the DNA version the Sentence Template is {blank} so none of your actual existing GedMatch facts will appear in Narrative Reports.

Jane ~ SNAP!
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 05 Mar 2019 11:12

Thank you for all the explanations.
I have managed to delete mye old custom events and down load Jane's two files and have used them successfully.
It is beautiful Jane, thank you.

As feed back - It was not totally clear to me with the use of links that I myself needed to type in the ID numbers of the couple, or the individual required. I have spent some time searching for an fh ID number for the married couple, but couldnt find it, so entered the two numbers for man and wife separated by a comma.
But this is much better than listing DNA matches in MS Access.

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby davidf » 05 Mar 2019 11:37

Jane wrote:The software writer in me does not like to put text in when I can add a link which can be used.
This discussion has alerted me to the power of GetLabelledText, but I wonder is it easier to use Witnesses as a means of linking individuals by DNA?

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby tatewise » 05 Mar 2019 11:44

To find the Family Record Id for a married couple you need to find their Family record.

The easiest way is to bring the couple into Focus in the Focus Window.
Click on the blue Marriage bar that runs across underneath both their boxes.
That will display their Family record and the [Rec Id] is shown in the caption at the top of the Property Box.

An alternative is to find their Family record in the Families tab of the Records Window by entering one of their names in the Filter top left.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 05 Mar 2019 11:49

I tried using Witnesses first, but found it difficult to store all the information and avoid having dig the information stored under the Witnesses for a person.

The advantage with logging the data against the "contacted" individual concerned rather than over multiple witnesses just seemed easier to me anyway.

If you add the Principle as a witness then the witness information appears many times on the principle.
If you add the contacts as Witnesses to the Principle it's difficult to review all the information and links easily with a Query.

This way made it easy to add an icon to DNA connected people while not having lots of facts showing against he principle.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 05 Mar 2019 11:53

I have added the Family Numbers onto my default diagram using

Code: Select all

Family ID F=RecordId(%CUR~FAMS>%)

I added them just to the Spouse box

So if I do a How Related diagram between the two people I can easily find the Family Number.

Once this has bedded in a bit, I will write a plugin to make it easy to edit these and use a prompt for the Family number.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby E Wilcock » 05 Mar 2019 18:52

"Family ID F=RecordId(%CUR~FAMS>%)"

Jane - is this a further column heading and column contents in the Columns tab of the Query?
I am getting an error message that it is an invalid expression for the current query type.

I was happy with the query in the original form.
For those who would be more comfortable with witnesses - Witnesses can link people but the names tend to be buried deep within individual facts. They arent useful for handling and making visible lists of unfamiliar names which is what one needs e.g. in an immigration study or sorting out dozens of potential DNA matches.

I use queries all the time because once a query is written (and Jane has written this one) you only have to select it and run it and it instantly displays the selected information about any group of people. You can leave the query result to hand in the left column, or you can save it to a Named list and sort it and filter it further. The column format of the results makes it easy to pick out anyone on the list for whom the data looks unusual or unexpected.

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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby Jane » 05 Mar 2019 23:26

That one is intended for Diagram text schemes.
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Re: Recording DNA matches in Family Historian

Postby tatewise » 05 Mar 2019 23:29

That Family ID ... template is (as Jane said) for a Diagram not for the Query.
She should perhaps have said it is for a Diagram Text Scheme item Template.
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