* Ancestry DNA tests

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phende
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Ancestry DNA tests

Post by phende » 05 Jan 2019 21:24

My wife and I have been given DNA test kits as a gift. We have submitted these and now received notices of "hits" from Ancestry, mostly at 4th cousin level or greater. In most cases, I was not aware of these people and they certainly did not appear in the abbreviated trees we have on Ancestry so the matches do seem to have been made on the DNA and not through matching names on trees. In most cases I can identify a common ancestor. Does this mean that I can be fairly sure that the line from me to the common ancestor is established? (The further back you go, the more you have to take on trust that you have identified the correct ancestor.) If this is so, how can I show this established line in FH?

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Gowermick
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by Gowermick » 06 Jan 2019 06:46

You are correct in your assumption, and are fortunate to find the common ancestors. For some reason, a lot of people taking a DNA test assume it will magically produce their tree without any research on their part to back it up, so don’t bother providing a tree for potential matches to look at!
The DNA match will tell you how far back this common ancestor is likely to be, and by comparing trees, who this common ancestor is.
However, It isn’t always that simple, Genealogy research assumes the father of a child is the mother’s husband or partner, but this may not always be the case. If the father was in fact someone else (e.g. the lodger :D ), and you are related to this man, the DNA will match to show this, but you won’t find a tree match, as the ‘lodger’ won’t be shown in the child’s tree, (commonly known as a non-paternal event).
By using a site such as gedmatch.com, more details of the match can be provided, and by comparing lots of results, you can narrow down what brach of your tree the common ancestor is in.
At present, I haven’t found a simple way to indicate this in FH, but I’m sure someone here will have the answer :D
Mike Loney

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gwilym'smum
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by gwilym'smum » 07 Jan 2019 08:58

Hi,
Like Mike says you are lucky to have established a common ancestor, in all my matches I have not found a common ancestor yet!

I am not an expert but to answer your question regarding if this establishes your line as correct I would say that every step should be verified by traditional research as you could well have two persons with the same name, chosen the wrong one, then linked them back on the right path. For my own case, my Mayer family have about 8 to 10 children each and most survived, but they all used the same names and were frequently born round about the same time, they even lived in each other's houses and I did pick the wrong one but with the help of records established my mistake. Had I not discovered my mistake it would still have led back to the same ancestor. Sorry if this is complicated but can be a problem.

I would think that the DNA links you to one person not everyone in your tree.
I could well be wrong but this is how I figure it out.
All the best
Ann
Researching Mayer, Parr/Parr, Simcock, Beech and all related families

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phende
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by phende » 15 Jan 2019 16:45

I am experimenting with using the Group/Caste attribute. I have created a group, DNA Group 1, and given this attribute to the common ancestors, then copied it to the next descendant in turn, ending up at the person to whom I am matched. I have also initially added this attribute to my ancestors back to the common ancestor, though I think this might mean I become a member of many groups and that might become untidy. Having done it for one group, however, I can now view all the members of this group from the Work with Data dialogue. I think I should be able to set a flag and hence an icon, if I can figure out the syntax, if the individual has that attribute, though again there might be hassle with multiple group membership.
Any thoughts, anyone?

Peter

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tatewise
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by tatewise » 15 Jan 2019 21:39

You don't need to set a record Flag, just test for the Attribute in the Diagram > Options > Boxes > Conditions by using an Expression instead of a Record Flag condition.
See Knowledge Base > Using Flags and Icons and Expressions.
e.g.
=IsTrue(%INDI.CAST% = "DNA Group 1")

Then it works immediately and automatically as soon as you add (or remove) that Attribute with no fiddling around with Flags.

The same technique will work for the DNA Markers Attribute.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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phende
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by phende » 16 Jan 2019 00:16

Thanks, Mike. I'll give that a go. I have now added more groups (with more descriptive names) and it is working OK. I have had multiple matches from Ancestry, some useless as there are no trees, some frustrating because the trees don't go far enough or lack detail, and some which are very strong but hint that someone has strayed! This is helping to tie them all together.

Peter

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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by tatewise » 16 Jan 2019 10:12

If any person may have multiple Group/Caste attributes each with a different DNA Group value then the Boxes > Condition needs to be a bit more complex.
e.g.
To check for Group/Caste attribute value DNA Group X among up to three attributes then use:
=IsTrue( %INDI.CAST[1]% = "DNA Group X" or %INDI.CAST[2]% = "DNA Group X" or %INDI.CAST[3]% = "DNA Group X" )

Use an almost identical expression to test for DNA Group Y:
=IsTrue( %INDI.CAST[1]% = "DNA Group Y" or %INDI.CAST[2]% = "DNA Group Y" or %INDI.CAST[3]% = "DNA Group Y" )

Each Condition Expression would then invoke say a different Icon to represent each DNA Group.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Jane
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by Jane » 16 Jan 2019 12:07

Another possible solution is to use a comma separated list in a single Attribute and use ContainsText such as

=ContainsText(%INDI._ATTR-DNA_MARKERS%,"group1",STD)

where the attribute or cast field could contain
group1, group2, group3 etc

One caveat would be if you need to avoid having one group name containing another, e.g.
group10 contains group1
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."

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Sue7How
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by Sue7How » 22 Jan 2019 18:31

Hi
I have been entering my DNA results from Ancestry and other sites for about a year and after some experimentation I have found a simple way that works for me. By each name I enter a ~ if we share i.e. Fred Bloggs~ and Mother Bloggs~ etc I also have a fact type for each person DNA shared and in the source I have The testing company eg Ancestry DNA and in the notes, the name of the cousin. Once back to the MRCA I then just do the same back to me, I copy and paste their name into the shared DNA note box. This means I can have many in my box but it is easy to follow individuals back to source.
I also keep a note on Ancestry that I have entered them in my Family Historian Tree.
I also keep a check in diagrams by having a flag which changes the colour of the name box to red and makes descendants easy to see, and also check that the links are all present and correct.
Sue Howard

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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by jmurphy » 23 Jan 2019 01:38

phende wrote: In most cases I can identify a common ancestor. Does this mean that I can be fairly sure that the line from me to the common ancestor is established?
if you're talking about simply comparing any one 4th-cousin match and you, then the answer is probably NO.

Ancestry has "Shared Ancestor Hints" too but there's no guarantee that the person is related to you on that line.

Suppose I am comparing kit A and kit B. The first thing I want to know is 1) do person A and person B both have *complete* family trees with no missing ancestors covering the 5-7 generations that autosomal DNA will 'reach'? The second question I have is 2) are those trees *accurate*?

If the answer to either or both of those questions is NO, then kit A and kit B may match on one of the undocumented parts of the tree instead of the line you know about.

This is why many people transfer their raw data to GEDMatch or other sites where a chromosome browser is provided, so they can do deeper analysis of the data, as well as looking at their matches' matches, etc.

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phende
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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by phende » 28 Jan 2019 16:48

Having now identified at least 5 DNA groups, I've found it to be too much hassle to try to differentiate each one on a diagram. I have therefore used the data ref %INDI.CAST% as a boolean value. If it is present, the individual's box is outlined in red. This shows up clearly in the diagrams and shows me which other people are likely to be part of the group.
When setting the Group/Caste for an individual, I add a note if they are the MRCA or if they are the match, in which case I add the match statistic. I have created a custom query which displays the individuals in a group, the group name and the note, if present, when I enter the group name (or part of it) as a parameter. Is there any way I can get FH to allow me to choose the group from a drop-down list? (I see there is a function IsInList that lets you do this for list membership). Or does this take me into the realms of plug-ins?

Peter

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Re: Ancestry DNA tests

Post by PeterR » 28 Jan 2019 18:00

Have you thought of using Named Lists? You could have a Named List for each of your Groups, and add relevant records to it; the records in a Named List can be a mixture of Individual, Family, Note, Source, etc. One advantage of this approach is that any record can be in more than one Named List.
Peter Richmond (researching Richmond, Bulman, Martin, Driscoll, Baxter, Hall, Dales, Tyrer)

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