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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 28 Nov 2017 12:25

Morning Tatewise,

I've followed the steps in the A.S. Migration Guide and have reached the last step on the New PC Tools> Restore A.S. Options. At the bottom of the window at "File name" the ajacent box has merely ".xml" This is the same for the 3 folders; Settings, Logs & Backups. I have checked all 3 folders on the memory stick and the contents ar clear but on .... \Documents\Ancestral Sources\ the folders are empty.
Therefore I believe I now need to enter the path for each folder in front of ".xml" but the requirement to do this is not explicitly stated, so before I do this (and possibly screw myself up) I thought it wise to check with you.

I've been looking at options for using "the Cloud" for the Synchronisation. Up until now I have steered clear of this because, as I understand it, in reality the cloud is computer servers, which as we know can be hacked. My backups are to remote hard drives which are kept locked in a fire proof safe. However, if using "the cloud" is the only way to achieve the synchronisation, I will have to take the risk.
Of the 3 options: Drop Box, One Drive and Google Drive, I can immediately discard Drop Box because from time to time I put high resolution photographs on that platform for others to download. Of the remaining 2 alternatives, as I've had issues with Google before, I think I would prefer "One Drive" as it's already installed (but not opened) on my Desktop. Incidently, I use "Fire Fox" as my Browser - is there likely to be any conflict?

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 28 Nov 2017 13:16

So if you have followed the steps then:
  1. On the old Desktop PC you used Tools > Backup A.S. Options and saved AS Options Backup.xml file.
  2. You copied C:\Users\...\Documents\Ancestral Sources\ folder from Desktop PC to Laptop PC via USB stick.
  3. On the new Laptop PC the Tools > Restore A.S. Options should show the C:\Users\...\Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backup folder holding the saved AS Options Backup.xml file, which is the one to Open.

Regarding synchronisation, the only suitable automatic method is to use cloud storage.
The alternative would be to repeat the folder copying technique used to migrate from PC to PC.
But you must remember to perform that in the correct direction following any update on either PC.

Certainly OneDrive would be a good choice, and has no impact on any browsers (I also use Firefox).
Yes, that uses computer servers, and there is a low risk of being compromised, but your family history data is largely in the public domain already, and would not usually include sensitive details such as bank accounts, passwords, etc.

Since you already use DropBox you understand the principles.
You will need a Microsoft Account in order to sign-in to OneDrive.
That account will require an Email address and unique password for OneDrive to sign-in automatically.
See Knowledge Base > Utility ~ Microsoft OneDrive (SkyDrive) for details.

I applaud your use of an external drive kept in a fireproof safe, but is it also watertight?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 29 Nov 2017 17:38

Evening Tatewise,

For the second time over the past weeks my post has disappeared as I sent it! This is so frustrating! Have I been timed out? Are posts time limited?
I started my post this morning and amended it several times during the day (and it's now past 5pm) adding screen shots as I went trying explain my difficulty in completing the very last part of the AS Migration. I reached I the last line:
On the new Laptop PC the Tools > Restore A.S. Options should show the C:\Users\...\Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backup folder holding the saved AS Options Backup.xml file, which is the one to Open.
It is at this very point that the problem arises as when I sect Open, all I get is "*.xml" . Nothing else. It looks to me as if AS is not reading the 3 folders which were migrated via USB stick to the C: Drive of New PC. I have opened the folders on the C: Drive and each is populated.

I'm off now to set up One Drive for the Synchronisation.
As for Dropbox; yes I use it, albeit infrequently, but I did not install it so I will not say that I am familiar with it.
Regarding water risk to my safe: the nearest watercourse is a mile or two away and before I bought the house, I made very sure that it is a the very top of the drainage run.

Insha'allah this post will go.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 29 Nov 2017 20:15

Yes, your FHUG login session is time limited if it is inactive for a few tens of minutes.
Unfortunately, editing the Post a reply box is NOT counted as 'activity'.
You must use the Preview button from time to time, or use the Save draft button.

On the new Laptop PC the Tools > Restore A.S. Options should produce dialogue shown below, and you should be able to select the AS Options Backup.xml file and click Open to restore all settings. If the AS Options Backup.xml file is not shown in that Backups folder, then the preceding steps have not been performed correctly.
ASRestoreBackup.png
ASRestoreBackup.png (50.73 KiB) Viewed 2707 times
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 30 Nov 2017 13:27

Morning Tatewise,

Thank you for explaining how to avoid having my posts timed-out.

As for migrating AS to the Laptop (New PC) I have not seen the Dialogue Box that you show.

I've spent the last couple of hours checking the C: Drive on the Laptop and Desktop (Old PC) and I may have found where the problem lies. In Backups I'm seeing files relating to FH backups at the end of sessions- these were zipped backups, one set of which were unzipped by the techie I use from time to time when I have a computer problem. But that is history; now that I have been advised by your good self how to do things properly. Now that we have the up-to-date FH project on both Old PC and New PC I need to clean out these past backups and then perhaps I will see the Dialogue Box that you see. I'm suspending the AS migration for now while I do this, starting with the Desktop.

Incidently, I'm booked on the all-day Family Historian course at the SOG on Saturday, and from an email received this morning I find that John Hanson, who was due to deliver the course, in unwell. His place is to be taken by Simon Orde.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 30 Nov 2017 14:25

As I said, the screenshot dialogue I posted is shown when you use the AS command Tools > Restore A.S. Options.

It displays the folder ...Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backups which is one of the subfolders that should have been copied by you from Desktop to Laptop as part of copying that ...Documents\Ancestral Sources folder via USB memory stick.

Those are nothing to do with FH Backups and are in a completely different ...Documents\Ancestral Sources folder.

What happens when you use the AS command Tools > Restore A.S. Options?
( You can try that command on both PC and the dialogues should be almost identical. )

Does it display that Open dialogue for the ...Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backups folder?

Does that folder show the AS Options Backup.xml file?

Have you selected that file and clicked the Open button?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 30 Nov 2017 18:42

Evening Tatewise,

I have removed superseded FH backups to make sure there was no possibility of influence, but I still cannot see the screen-shot image that you posted. Looking at the screenshot:
1. I get exactly the same path along the top.
2. Down the LHS under "Organise" you appear to have Ancestral Sources as a folder, with Backups, Logs & Settings as sub-folders. I have the 3 folders but not as sub-folders of Ancestral Sources.
3. In the body of the screen i have "New Folder".
4. At the bottom I have File name "*.xml" and alongside this on the right I have "AS Options Backup Files (.xml)" the same as the sreen shot.
5. When I highlight the Backups folder under Organise on the left. I get "AS Options Backup xml document 25 kb" in the body of the screen. At the top I get "This PC> Documents> Backups".
Quite a difference.

Going back to step 3 of the AS Migration Guide; when I follow "Tools> Backup AS Options*, I press "Save" but get a message: "AS Options Backup .xml already exists. Do you want to replace it?" and I have consistantly said "Yes". I then copy the 3 folders from C: drive and paste to E: drive (the memory stick). When checking drive contents of the 3 folders I notice that in" Backups", in addition to "AS Options Backup" there are also 10 Gedcom File backups from FH - should these be there? "Logs" and "Settings" folders appear to be ok.

I'm sorry to be such a pain. Despite following as accurately as I can the the instructions given in the AS Migration Guide I've obviously gone wrong somewhere. Hopefully from the above you may be able to suggest where.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 30 Nov 2017 20:08

You should be copying the Ancestral Sources folder from PC to PC, not its three sub-folders.
When the copy is performed all its sub-folders and files will be included automatically.
Yes, the Backups sub-folder should include backup Gedcom files that are AS created insurance copies.

The ...Documents\Ancestral Sources\... folder structure should be identical on both PC.
In all these FH and AS migration steps the objective is to mimic one PC on the other PC.
So just compare what is on the Desktop with what is on the Laptop to see what is required.

From your description you are NOT copying the Ancestral Sources folder onto the Laptop PC.
You are only copying the three sub-folders (Backups, Logs, Settings) directly into Documents without the Ancestral Sources folder in between.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 01 Dec 2017 10:49

Morning Tatewise,

I have been following "Ancestral Sources Migration Guide" within the FHUG Knowledge Base.

Under "Details" there are 6 bullet points.
Bullet point 2 says "...... note the location of the three AS Folders"
Bullet point 5 says "Copy the AS Folders from old PC to new PC .....

This is what I have been doing. Note Folders plural in both cases.

OK, we are where we are. I will now try to repeat the migration exercise yet again following your latest post.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 01 Dec 2017 11:30

Sorry, but I stand by those migration steps.

In the AS Options > General settings the [...] buttons to the right of each folder allow each one to be located anywhere.

So each folder must be copied from the location on the old PC to the location on the new PC as defined by those settings.
You have not been doing that.

The Backup Folder in a default scenario like yours is located in C:\Users\...\Documents\Ancestral Sources\Backups on both PC.
But you are copying it to C:\Users\...\Documents\Backups which is NOT its location on the new Laptop PC.

You can copy the three folders separately exactly as per the migration steps if you like, but must use the correct locations.
Since they are all located within the Ancestral Sources folder on both PC, it is a bit easier to just copy that parent folder.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 01 Dec 2017 12:10

Tatewise,

I have found something else that is not right on the C: Drive of New PC, where I have:

......\Documents\Ancestral Sources
......\Documents\Backups
......\Documents\Logs
......\Documents\Settings

Whereas on Old PC I have Backups, Logs & Settings as sub-folders of Ancestral Sources. So as Ancestral Sources already contains the files: Backups, Logs & Settings, I believe I should now delete Documents\Backups; Documents\Logs & Documents\Settings. Do you agree?

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 01 Dec 2017 12:40

I assume they are the folders you copied from the Desktop PC into the wrong location.

So yes, as long as you have also copied them into the Ancestral Sources folder where they belong.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 01 Dec 2017 15:24

Tatewise,

The post that i wrote and sent this morning was stopped by your incoming post at 13.40 above. When I returned from lunch I found my post was still unsent, I added a couple of lines and then sent it again an hour ago, but it has not appeared.

Cutting a long, and now lost, story short; in view of my multiple mistakes in Ancestral Sources on the New PC, I propose to unistall AS from New PC and reinstall it, giving me a clean sheet rather than attempting to make corrections. Do you agree?

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 01 Dec 2017 18:44

No, there is nothing wrong with the installed AS program.

Just ensure the folders & files from the Ancestral Sources folder on old Desktop PC are replicated on new Laptop PC.

From your other interests, you are clearly an intelligent person, but for some reason you find working with PC awkward.
All this exercise involves is making an exact copy from one PC to the other PC.

If someone else happens to Submit a post at the same time as you, then you should be simply returned to the Reply edit box.
There simply Submit it again.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 05 Dec 2017 12:19

Morning Tatewise,

Having completed the final bullet point of the AS Migration Guide, on New PC I have the following:

Capture snip 1 - 5 Dec.PNG
Capture snip 1 - 5 Dec.PNG (35.55 KiB) Viewed 2462 times


Capture snip 2 - 5 Dec.PNG
Capture snip 2 - 5 Dec.PNG (48.61 KiB) Viewed 2462 times


Capture snip 3 - 5 Dec.PNG
Capture snip 3 - 5 Dec.PNG (31.56 KiB) Viewed 2462 times

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 05 Dec 2017 13:35

So when you use the AS command Tools > Restore A.S. Options you will be able to Open the AS Options Backup.xml file to migrate the settings to the new PC.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 06 Dec 2017 13:01

Morning Tatewise,

From my "Capture Snip 2 above: I press "Open" and up comes a Warning that the Options will replace all settings (which is what we want). I press "OK" and AS closes. I open AS again and up comes the Welcome Screen. Does this complete the exercise - has the migration been successful?

The screen-shot in your post of 29 November shows at the bottom of the screen "File name AS Options Backup .xml", to the right of which is AS Options Backup Files (.xml).
In my Capture Snip 2, in the same location as your screen-shot, I initially get File name: *.xml When I press "Open" I only get "File name: AS Options Backup, no .xml, but to the right I do get AS Options Backup Files (.xml).

To my untrained eye it seems to be the same thing, but what I have is not identical to what you have in your screen shot.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 06 Dec 2017 13:47

Yes, that is perfect.

I have customised my Windows File Explorer settings to show file types such as .xml, .pdf, .docx, .ged, etc...
But the Type description to the right also tells you what type of file it is.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 07 Dec 2017 11:18

Morning Tatewise,

Thank you for confirming completion of the AS Migration.

I have printed out from Knowledge Base the FH Synchronisation guide for OneDrive which I will study, along with the Getting Started introduction within OneDrive.

One question before I go any further. In theOneDrive opening screen there are 3 folders: Documents, Pictures and Getting Started. I do not want to clog up OneDrive with lots of high resolution photographs (these are copied to remote hard drive) but how are photographs and scans of documents held within Media in FH, handled? If I select not to include Pictures in OneDrive will this affect the jpeg files within Media?

I see OneDrive as being reserved solely for FH Synchronisation, not for cloud storeage.

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby davidm_uk » 07 Dec 2017 11:47

If you want to synchronise your Project between PC and laptop, then surely you need to include any media that are associated with the project (be it linked to a source, individual, family, place), and these will all normally be in the Media subfolder for that Project. There may also be relevant files in the Public subfolder for that Project that you want to keep synchronised. If you don't synchronise all of these then you wont have the same information about the FH Project on both PC and laptop.

If you choose to synchronise the top level Project folder to OneDrive then all of the files and subfolders within that project will get copied into the Documents area of OneDrive, in the same folder/file structure as on your PC.

I suppose you could keep the high resolution photos and scans elsewhere on your PC, and have lower resolution copies in the Project media folder, but managing that on an ongoing basis would be quite a nightmare.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 07 Dec 2017 13:40

David, you are essentially correct, except that large Media image files, etc, are NOT a significant problem.
Once they have synchronised initially, they won't change, and so won't need to be synchronised again.
That initial synchronisation may take a while if you have very large Projects.
Only new files will need to be synchronised.
The same is true for Dropbox, OneDrive, Google Drive, etc. ~ if it were not so, those services would be unusable.

The Pictures and Music folders within OneDrive can be left empty.

You don't even have to use the Documents folder.

You can simply move the Family Historian Projects folder into the OneDrive folder and ignore the rest.
That is what is described in Knowledge Base > Family Historian Synchronisation.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby davidm_uk » 07 Dec 2017 14:06

It might be a problem for the OP if he has to pay for extra storage, OneDrive gives only 5GB for free, then £1.99 a month for 50Gb. Depends how "high res" his photos and scans are, and how many of them. My main project folder is around 4.5Gb.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby Jane » 08 Dec 2017 08:42

For huge databases Google Drive is cheaper and gives you more for your money. 15Gb free and 100Gb for £16 a year. 1Tb on dropbox is $99 per year, but you can get free space to add to the 2Gb limit, by getting referals or uploading images from your phone etc, I have got mine up to 18Gb by referrals etc.
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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby aaj1945 » 10 Dec 2017 15:49

Tatewise,

I think you have answered my question, ie that OneDrive does not deal with Media (jpeg files) separately from the rest of FH files. So, as I don't intend to store my high resolution photographs in OneDrive, I can delete Pictures from OneDrive retaining only Documents.

Arising from discussions above relating to 5GB free or 50GB for £1.99 per month, this depends on how big my FH Project(s) is. At present I have just over 2,000 individuals uploaded from my research over the last 20 years or so. However the uploading exercise is not finished; I estimate there are at least a further 500 individuals awaiting uploading and more and more database releases from FMP etc suggests there may be perhaps around 3,000 individuals in total I suspect this would require more than 5GB. Would you agree?

This afternoon there is an incoming Windows Update on my laptop covering "Files on Demand" and "Windows 10 Fall Creators Update". As far as you know, would these have any implications for my FH Synchronisation?

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Re: Can I synchronise my static desktop to a mobile laptop ?

Postby tatewise » 10 Dec 2017 16:27

Firstly, those Windows Updates should have no impact on FH synchronisation or anything else to do with FH.

The size of your Project has little directly to do with the number of Individuals as they only affect the GEDCOM file, which is typically only about the size of one large Media image file. What matters more is how many Media files there are and their sizes.
e.g.
I have a 2000 Individuals Project whose GEDCOM file is about 3.3 MegaBytes.
Whereas the whole Project folder & Media files, etc, size is about 1.7 GigaBytes.

To discover how much space is needed, open Windows File Explorer and right-click on the Family Historian Projects folder and choose Properties at bottom of list. That will give the Size needed for FH synchronisation, so plan for about a 50% increase since you expect to go from 2000 to 3000 records assuming the same ratio of Media.
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