* Private Messages

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Mark1834
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Re: Private Messages

Post by Mark1834 »

I read it as meaning direct E-mail throughout, as in “send E-mail to AdrianBruce” for example.

The recipient receives an E-mail from FHUG forwarding the initiator’s message and reply E-mail address. If the intended recipient has messages disabled, that option is not visible, so they cannot receive any direct messages from other ordinary users.

I’m not aware of any other way of doing it, so I suspect it’s just slightly loose language.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by BillH »

I guess I was confused by the fact that there are two settings in the global settings. One for emails and one for private messages. This made me think that emails and private messages were not the same thing.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

I have PMs enabled in User Control Panel, Board Preferences. Can anyone see to PM me?
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

BillH wrote: 13 Apr 2024 21:18 This made me think that emails and private messages were not the same thing.
You are correct. It looks like PMs are totally disabled on here.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

Mark1834 wrote: 13 Apr 2024 21:06... The recipient receives an E-mail from FHUG forwarding the initiator’s message and reply E-mail address. If the intended recipient has messages disabled, that option is not visible, so they cannot receive any direct messages from other ordinary users.

I’m not aware of any other way of doing it, so I suspect it’s just slightly loose language.
Err - I may be turning into Mr Pedantry again, but it's a little worse than slightly loose language. If someone turns off "Allow Users to Send You Private Messages", then it will have zero effect on the Off-Board emails. This will be disconcerting for the recipient if they think that they have already stopped Off-Board emails - when they've actually only stopped PMs.

Further, since I also use a forum where pukka PMs are used, no wonder I ended up being confused about what meant what...
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

As PMs are totally disabled on here, the option should be hidden in the board preferences to remove the confusion!
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

jelv wrote: 13 Apr 2024 21:21 I have PMs enabled in User Control Panel, Board Preferences. Can anyone see to PM me?
If I click the Contact Speech bubble for you, it only gives me the option to email you. And, as I said, I have no visibility of the (genuine) PM tab that I can see on other boards.

As for "the option should be hidden in the board preferences to remove the confusion", I imagine that the Mods can send one another PMs and I'm not sure if it's even vaguely possible to hack that Control Panel. No way would I ask Jane to spend ages on doing something that education would solve.

But certainly, the confusion needs to be tackled because of the risk that people think that they've switched off all unsolicited stuff when they've only switched off the PMs that none of us ordinary users can access anyway. ("Unless, of course, you know better", as Esther Rantzen said...)
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

If mods can send PMs, could they then send one to a none mod and if so how would they read it?
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

AdrianBruce wrote: 13 Apr 2024 21:37
jelv wrote: 13 Apr 2024 21:21 I have PMs enabled in User Control Panel, Board Preferences. Can anyone see to PM me?
If I click the Contact Speech bubble for you, it only gives me the option to email you. And, as I said, I have no visibility of the (genuine) PM tab that I can see on other boards.
I've added you as a friend - has that made a difference?
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Re: Private Messages

Post by NickWalker »

I've not seen any options to send pms. I have been sent many emails over the years through the Fhug facility but never a pm as far as I remember.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

jelv wrote: 13 Apr 2024 22:02... I've added you as a friend - has that made a difference?
No - the contact bubble still offers only emails and I still have no visibility of the PM tab in Control Panel.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

jelv wrote: 13 Apr 2024 22:00 If mods can send PMs, could they then send one to a none mod and if so how would they read it?
Well, that's a good question. Right at the very top, Jane said "Admins and moderators will always be able to contact you." But if I cannot access the PM tab where I can see PMs, how would I see their PM???? I've always assumed it would come by email but that's because I wasn't understanding the difference between genuine PMs and Off-board emails (sorry for the long names but it's important to be clear - if I can).
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Re: Private Messages

Post by Mark1834 »

Oh dear - what a bu**er's muddle... :?
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

The essential principles of what to think about still hold, Mark, as does the relevance of the Control Panel to Off-Board emails. But yes, regrettably all the plumbing instructions appear to be wrong. I can imagine people switching off PMs in the Control Panel and getting upset when they still receive Off-Board emails.

Incidentally, I have no desire to access the "proper" PMs or DMs or whatever you want to call them. I'm happy with the Off-Board emails.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by Mark1834 »

I suspect Helen will chip in shortly to clarify, but the key point seems to be that sending direct messages is already deactivated for all users, but receiving direct messages is under user control. :?

I’m only just twigging that there are two distinct mechanisms - I don’t use many other forums so don’t have much to compare FHUG with. Most of my notifications are switched off, but I do keep e-mail contact enabled, and have e-mail notices of posts in threads related to my plugins.

We badly need a sticky post explaining exactly how the direct contact processes work. The experienced users contributing here are confused, so no wonder newcomers can have problems understanding the options…
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

No Mark, receiving direct messages is not under user control.

If it were, at the top right we would see
PMs2.png
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Without that option we can't view (or send) private messages.

Also when we clicked the contact bubble we would see
PMs3.png
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Re: Private Messages

Post by Mark1834 »

I think we are well down the burrow now, but this is what I meant:
Capture.png
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I have a second user account that I created a while ago when exploring how the options worked. I have disabled e-mail contact for the test account, so that option does not appear in my normal account. Private messages are still enabled, but there is no way to send one, even with the two accounts as mutual friends.

So I have a switch that controls whether users can send me private messages, but it’s not connected to anything as private messages (as opposed to e-mail contact) are disabled for everyone and can’t be switched on by the user.

It’s clear from re-reading the early posts in this thread that not even the forum moderators seemed to fully understand this distinction. One benefit from this discussion is that we all now have a much clearer picture of how the communication options work.

(Edited for clarification)
Last edited by Mark1834 on 14 Apr 2024 13:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

Ah, yes, John. So I was wrong about needing to access that tab on the Control Panel - or rather, that's not the only way to access Private Messages. If PMs are enabled then I'd see the Private Messages envelope icon on my toolbar. At least, that's what happens on another PHP board that I'm on where PMs are enabled.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

There seems to be a focus in this discussion on technology, rather than on behaviour.

So let's try again.

The Terms now state:
The forums support sending private messages via email to other users who have agreed to receive them. Be polite: sending unsolicited private messages by any means is not allowed. Users reported for unsolicited messages may have their ability to so do removed. (Any message you receive will have instructions for reporting it if necessary).

By default, new users have receipt of private messages by any means (emails or the private messaging system) disabled. The Forum Usage article in the KB includes instructions for enabling/disabling them. If you have had an account for some time, you may wish to check your settings. Moderators will always be able to send emails for moderation reasons.

The private messaging system is disabled completely, but turning it off in user settings is belt and braces in case a future forum software update inadvertently changes things.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by neil40 »

t4ms wrote: 12 Apr 2024 23:27
neil40 wrote: 12 Apr 2024 22:08 FYI - as you've been the victim of abhorrent DM's/PM's on Forums, you are not 'baked in' on this forum - note there is a 'Contact' with speech bubble under your details on your reply - when clicked it opens the PM facility to contact you, so you might want to go to your settings as per the OP and turn it off.

I presume your profile, like mine, fell under the 'Existing Users aren't affected'

Thank you for your perspective here.
Hi Neil,

My DMs are off so, unless you can see the email feature (I have no problem with my spam filter nuking any random weirdos), that's a bug with the forum.

Cheers,

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Re: Private Messages

Post by Mark1834 »

Tamara’s e-mail contact is still enabled, but I think that was the intention, and relying on spam filter to get rid of the rubbish.

My experience is that routine e-mail notifications (which I enable for threads related to my plugins) usually get through, but occasionally end up in Junk Mail.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 15 Apr 2024 08:28 There seems to be a focus in this discussion on technology, rather than on behaviour. ...
The text seems OK to me, Helen. Personally, I'm still not convinced that "All defamatory [etc.] ... are strictly prohibited" wouldn't cover it but it's not my board and rules. I believe that you do have the right combination of "must", "may", "should", etc.
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 15 Apr 2024 08:28 ... The private messaging system is disabled completely, but turning it off in user settings is belt and braces in case a future forum software update inadvertently changes things.
It might be useful to put this into the Rules, explaining also that private messaging by email is available provided the recipient has allowed it. Otherwise, we risk the same confusion that I went through where I imagined that there was only one mechanism so which tickbox was it? (Especially considering the terms "Private Messaging by email" and "Private Messages" are so close).
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Re: Private Messages

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

AdrianBruce wrote: 15 Apr 2024 15:39
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 15 Apr 2024 08:28 ... The private messaging system is disabled completely, but turning it off in user settings is belt and braces in case a future forum software update inadvertently changes things.
It might be useful to put this into the Rules, explaining also that private messaging by email is available provided the recipient has allowed it. Otherwise, we risk the same confusion that I went through where I imagined that there was only one mechanism so which tickbox was it? (Especially considering the terms "Private Messaging by email" and "Private Messages" are so close).
We try to keep the rules about behaviours, not technologies. The extra detail is in the Forum Usage post in the KB.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by AdrianBruce »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 15 Apr 2024 16:45 ...We try to keep the rules about behaviours, not technologies. The extra detail is in the Forum Usage post in the KB.
Which I see has the full explanation now, thanks.
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Re: Private Messages

Post by jelv »

https://www.fhug.org.uk/forum/ucp.php?mode=terms wrote:The forums support sending private messages via email ...
I think some of the confusion arose because that includes the phrase "private messages" which means something specific to those familiar with other forums. A minor tweak, but would
The forums support sending private email messages ...
work better?
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