* Private Messages
- Jane
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Private Messages
Can I remind you that using the private messaging facility to send unsolicited messages is not allowed. Users reported for doing so will have their ability to send private messages removed. (Any message you receive will have instructions for reporting it if necessary).
If you wish to disable the receipt of private messages, go to your User Control Panel , click on Board Preferences and Edit Global Settings, and then set the options shown to your personal preferences. Admins and moderators will always be able to contact you.
If you wish to disable the receipt of private messages, go to your User Control Panel , click on Board Preferences and Edit Global Settings, and then set the options shown to your personal preferences. Admins and moderators will always be able to contact you.
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
- Mark1834
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Re: Private Messages
Jane, could you clarify please? I’m not sure what you mean. Surely, if somebody has messages enabled, they have given permission to other users to contact them offline? I’ve been PM’d many times by users following up forum posts or asking for advice on something they know I can help with. That’s fine by me - they don’t need permission first.
Mark Draper
- ColeValleyGirl
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Re: Private Messages
Mark,
People may not have realised that receiving private messages is enabled by default; it's not uncommon for the admins to receive reports of private messages as unwanted, hence this post.
Ideally, all contact would be via the forums, where it's available for other to learn from. If you're happy to receive private messages, great, but user should check in the first instance on the forums to avoid sending unsolicited messages.
People may not have realised that receiving private messages is enabled by default; it's not uncommon for the admins to receive reports of private messages as unwanted, hence this post.
Ideally, all contact would be via the forums, where it's available for other to learn from. If you're happy to receive private messages, great, but user should check in the first instance on the forums to avoid sending unsolicited messages.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
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Re: Private Messages
No problem with reminding users what the defaults are, but it was the first sentence that confused me. FHUG rules appear to be silent on use of the PM facility, but perhaps I missed it…
Mark Draper
- ColeValleyGirl
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Re: Private Messages
Common courtesy, Mark? Plus common sense.
If I receive an unsolicited email from an address that I'm not familiar with, it's deleted unread.
Other people might report it as spam -- and the last thing Jane needs is for FHUG to be reported as a source of spam.
If I receive an unsolicited email from an address that I'm not familiar with, it's deleted unread.
Other people might report it as spam -- and the last thing Jane needs is for FHUG to be reported as a source of spam.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
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- Jane
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Re: Private Messages
I have recently had several complaints about unsolicited messages being sent via Private messages. As Helen says this worries new users. This was a reminder that sending out these sort of messages is impolite and highly discouraged. I will update the rule to include details as above, unfortunately the Forum FAQs are standard from PHPBB so it will mean some work to override the standard ones.
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
- Mark1834
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Re: Private Messages
Thanks Jane, that makes sense. I’d be opposed to a blanket ban on unsolicited PMs without wider consultation, as I think it would be unworkable (sending a message to ask for permission to send a message… ). However, the Community Rules and Etiquette Guidelines appear to be free text, so a reminder in there that PMs should follow the same rules as postings may be the simplest option.
There may be a case for PMs to be off by default for new members if that is possible. I suspect it’s mainly the older hands who would be contacted this way, and I for one would be happy to leave it on. Helen’s point about unknown e-mail addresses may be a red herring, as messages are clearly shown as sent from FHUG in my experience.
Perhaps it should also be made clear that if you send a PM, it exposes your actual registered e-mail address as the reply address.
There may be a case for PMs to be off by default for new members if that is possible. I suspect it’s mainly the older hands who would be contacted this way, and I for one would be happy to leave it on. Helen’s point about unknown e-mail addresses may be a red herring, as messages are clearly shown as sent from FHUG in my experience.
Perhaps it should also be made clear that if you send a PM, it exposes your actual registered e-mail address as the reply address.
Mark Draper
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Re: Private Messages
As you pointed out, any private message sets an (unfamiliar) email address as the reply address.
I also delete all private messages from other forums of which I'm a member if I can't turn them off. In my experience 99% of them are spam.
They already are, but there are a large number of users who joined before we had the capability to adjust the defaults for new users.There may be a case for PMs to be off by default for new members if that is possible.
But they shouldn't. There's a difference between a public message on a forum where everyone can see what is said and hold posters to account if they break the rules; and a private message arriving unsolicited in your email. Both ought to follow the same rules as a minimum, but there's an additional layer of care required for private messages because of that word: private.
Nobody is saying: send a message to ask for permission to send a message. Anybody can ask in the forums for permission to send a follow up private message on a topic; it won't happen so often as to swamp the discussion, I suspect. If somebody wants to send a message that isn't related to a topic in which somebody has participated, that's spam in my book.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
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Re: Private Messages
Whilst I am generally in agreement with this, there are times when you couldn't ask on the forum "May I PM you".
I am baffled by the above statement though as well. Where on the forum does it say that?
I very rarely come in this sub forum, my main ports of call being "General Usage" and "Ancestral Sources"
If this is a rule, then maybe post it as a sticky in the General Usage forum, where I suspect most people go?
If I've missed this 'rule', then please direct me to it. I did look around before replying to this.
Neil Grantham
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
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Re: Private Messages
Why not?
I am baffled by the above statement though as well. Where on the forum does it say that?
To add, we have changed the defaults for new users to disable the receipt of private messages. Existing users aren't affected.Jane wrote: ↑16 Mar 2024 14:53 I have recently had several complaints about unsolicited messages being sent via Private messages. As Helen says this worries new users. This was a reminder that sending out these sort of messages is impolite and highly discouraged. I will update the rule to include details as above, unfortunately the Forum FAQs are standard from PHPBB so it will mean some work to override the standard ones.
Helen Wright
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- Mark1834
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Re: Private Messages
Perhaps to offer private advice if a "discussion" is getting acrimonious...? It would be perfectly reasonable to do that below the radar.
Mark Draper
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Re: Private Messages
Indeed - with a security hat on (not that I ever went in for one much), asking, "Can I set up a confidential dialogue with you?" and copying everyone in, is more than a little illogical...
Adrian
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Re: Private Messages
This is precisely what I meant - it's happened to me. I took the conversation to PM. To ask in the forum if I could do so would have been very awkward!
Neil Grantham
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
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Re: Private Messages
First, I was challenging that we are "reminded" when there isn't such a statement/ruleColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑12 Apr 2024 16:38I am baffled by the above statement though as well. Where on the forum does it say that?To add, we have changed the defaults for new users to disable the receipt of private messages. Existing users aren't affected.Jane wrote: ↑16 Mar 2024 14:53 I have recently had several complaints about unsolicited messages being sent via Private messages. As Helen says this worries new users. This was a reminder that sending out these sort of messages is impolite and highly discouraged. I will update the rule to include details as above, unfortunately the Forum FAQs are standard from PHPBB so it will mean some work to override the standard ones.
Second, by 'disabled the receipt of private messages' do you mean 'turned off' or truly disabled - IE cannot be enabled by a user?
If it is the former, great, it gives the user a choice, but given the lack of a statement about such a 'rule', there needs to be a sticky post somewhere, or a 'welcome' to new users to state
a) that PM's are discouraged/not allowed'
b) how to turn off/on the options - the majority of users would probably not have a clue to look at the settings for such things
Neil Grantham
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
Re: Private Messages
Hi everyone,
I'd like to post my 2c worth (Australian dollars) about this and to, perhaps, provide a different perspective.
I'm looking at the gender of the OP and those who have replied. I absolutely do not want to start any kind of 'gender war' but, as a female myself, I can attest to receiving all kinds of (at best) weird and (at worst) let your imagination run wild DMs on different forums.
For years I've enjoyed the 'ask politely in a public space before you DM' on other forums and I made the assumption it was baked in here (thanks for baking this in). I have always turned off DMs.
If you have never received an unsolicited and deeply inappropriate DM from a member of a forum I guess you might be pondering why asking first in a public space matters. I will not open a DM if I haven't established communication with someone in advance. It's internet safety 101 for females.
Peace out,
Tamara
I'd like to post my 2c worth (Australian dollars) about this and to, perhaps, provide a different perspective.
I'm looking at the gender of the OP and those who have replied. I absolutely do not want to start any kind of 'gender war' but, as a female myself, I can attest to receiving all kinds of (at best) weird and (at worst) let your imagination run wild DMs on different forums.
For years I've enjoyed the 'ask politely in a public space before you DM' on other forums and I made the assumption it was baked in here (thanks for baking this in). I have always turned off DMs.
If you have never received an unsolicited and deeply inappropriate DM from a member of a forum I guess you might be pondering why asking first in a public space matters. I will not open a DM if I haven't established communication with someone in advance. It's internet safety 101 for females.
Peace out,
Tamara
The footnote would seem to be the smallest detail in a work of history. Yet it carries a large burden of responsibility, testifying to the validity of the work, the integrity (and the humility) of the historian, and to the dignity of the discipline.
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Re: Private Messages
Thanks Tamara
As a male, I have stated, I have no real problem with the OP's intent, just that the statement that it's a reminder is wrong - we've not been told this before to my knowledge, and there is no 'rule' set anywhere I can see.
FYI - as you've been the victim of abhorrent DM's/PM's on Forums, you are not 'baked in' on this forum - note there is a 'Contact' with speech bubble under your details on your reply - when clicked it opens the PM facility to contact you, so you might want to go to your settings as per the OP and turn it off.
I presume your profile, like mine, fell under the 'Existing Users aren't affected'
Thank you for your perspective here.
As a male, I have stated, I have no real problem with the OP's intent, just that the statement that it's a reminder is wrong - we've not been told this before to my knowledge, and there is no 'rule' set anywhere I can see.
FYI - as you've been the victim of abhorrent DM's/PM's on Forums, you are not 'baked in' on this forum - note there is a 'Contact' with speech bubble under your details on your reply - when clicked it opens the PM facility to contact you, so you might want to go to your settings as per the OP and turn it off.
I presume your profile, like mine, fell under the 'Existing Users aren't affected'
Thank you for your perspective here.
Neil Grantham
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
Researching Grantham, Skuce, Barrow and Birchall
Re: Private Messages
Hi Neil,neil40 wrote: ↑12 Apr 2024 22:08 FYI - as you've been the victim of abhorrent DM's/PM's on Forums, you are not 'baked in' on this forum - note there is a 'Contact' with speech bubble under your details on your reply - when clicked it opens the PM facility to contact you, so you might want to go to your settings as per the OP and turn it off.
I presume your profile, like mine, fell under the 'Existing Users aren't affected'
Thank you for your perspective here.
My DMs are off so, unless you can see the email feature (I have no problem with my spam filter nuking any random weirdos), that's a bug with the forum.
Cheers,
Tamara
The footnote would seem to be the smallest detail in a work of history. Yet it carries a large burden of responsibility, testifying to the validity of the work, the integrity (and the humility) of the historian, and to the dignity of the discipline.
- ColeValleyGirl
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Re: Private Messages
Tamara, you need to turn off DMs and Email messages.
And I'm totally with you on Internet Safety 101. I have DMs and Private emails turned off everywhere except in forums I moderate.
As Tamara has said, it was a baked in assumption -- Jane is going to document what had been assumed to be obvious.
Disabled by default; users can enable it if they wish. Instructions are in the Forum Usage article in the KB.Second, by 'disabled the receipt of private messages' do you mean 'turned off' or truly disabled - IE cannot be enabled by a user?
If it is the former, great, it gives the user a choice, but given the lack of a statement about such a 'rule', there needs to be a sticky post somewhere, or a 'welcome' to new users to state
a) that PM's are discouraged/not allowed'
b) how to turn off/on the options - the majority of users would probably not have a clue to look at the settings for such things
That's a moderator role, and nobody can turn off receipt of messages from moderator. Unless all the moderators are asleep at the wheel, there should be no need for anyone else to intervene.
Or do you mean that you want to continue an acrimonious discussion off-line Doesn't seem like a great idea to me...
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
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- Mark1834
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Re: Private Messages
Asking people to behave shouldn't be controversial, but it got off to a bad start with a false statement in the very first sentence of the thread.
I've read the ensuing comments, and had some further one-to-one discussion with Helen offline. If PMs are off, users who are happy to receive such messages will miss out on them. If they are on, users who don't want them many be offended and deterred by unwarranted and inappropriate messages (although given the age profile of FHUG, I would expect the more threatening sexually explicit messages are probably a non-issue here).
The latter scenario is clearly the more important, so my simple solution would be to turn off PMs now for all, and add a "sticky" post to the top of "Web Site Usage" to say that this has been done and explain how to re-enable them.
It then becomes a safe "opt-in" facility, without having to jump through hoops explaining when they can and can't be used, or clunky "PM's permitted" statements in individual signatures, which would get very boring and repetitive.
I've read the ensuing comments, and had some further one-to-one discussion with Helen offline. If PMs are off, users who are happy to receive such messages will miss out on them. If they are on, users who don't want them many be offended and deterred by unwarranted and inappropriate messages (although given the age profile of FHUG, I would expect the more threatening sexually explicit messages are probably a non-issue here).
The latter scenario is clearly the more important, so my simple solution would be to turn off PMs now for all, and add a "sticky" post to the top of "Web Site Usage" to say that this has been done and explain how to re-enable them.
It then becomes a safe "opt-in" facility, without having to jump through hoops explaining when they can and can't be used, or clunky "PM's permitted" statements in individual signatures, which would get very boring and repetitive.
Mark Draper
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Re: Private Messages
It may be because I'm a bloke but it absolutely wasn't a baked-in assumption from me. My assumption was that the facility exists and that it's therefore intended to be used. In fact, my first encounter with the "Please can I send you a DM...?" culture was on another board and I was somewhat bemused to be asked the question.ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑13 Apr 2024 08:45... As Tamara has said, it was a baked in assumption -- Jane is going to document what had been assumed to be obvious. ...
The one good thing, thank you Helen, is that I've looked at the User Control Panel and it's finally got through to me (unless I'm still behind) that there are 2 off-board communication methods - PMs and emails. I'm less certain about which of those two, people mean earlier in this thread when they refer to "Private Messages". Both? (I'm also unclear on the relative merits / demerits of the 2 mechanisms)
Actually, that wasn't the scenario I had in mind. Rather it was a case of a thread in danger of getting acrimonious when I have, on a couple of occasions - at least one of which was not here - PMd a third party to ask "Are we missing what the OP is going on about?" As Mark says, it seems reasonable to do that below the radar, especially if you feel that the OP is liable to go off like a bottle of pop.ColeValleyGirl wrote: ↑13 Apr 2024 08:45 ...That's a moderator role, and nobody can turn off receipt of messages from moderator. ...
And it isn't as far as I'm concerned. But I am slightly puzzled why the focus is on the mechanism (PMs etc) when surely the issue is about the content (e.g. spam, offensive content, etc.) - although Helen makes a good point right at the start when she refers to people marking FHUG originated stuff as spam and thus threatening FHUG's rating with whatever agencies monitor messages and/or emails.
Adrian
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Re: Private Messages
This is a bit off topic, but I was wondering if someone could explain how to do a PM on FHUG. I've looked around and can't find it. I see how to send an email, but not a PM.
Bill Henshaw
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Re: Private Messages
Hesitant because I'm not sure myself - but is this because everyone you've looked at has PMs switched off?
Adrian
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Re: Private Messages
I don't know if everyone I checked had it off. I was just curious because in all the years I have been using FH I have never seen any PM capabilities. I've used the email capability a few times. This thread refers to both methods. I couldn't find the PM capability anywhere.
Bill Henshaw
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Re: Private Messages
Bill - I'm now completely confused because I've checked on a phpBB Board where I do have PM - it's on the User Control Panel, on a tab called Private Messages between Board Preferences and UserGroups. No sign of it on FHUG...
Adrian
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Re: Private Messages
So I guess this entire thread is about emails rather than PM.
I have only sent a couple of emails using the email capability in FHUG. Those were for questions I had of a couple of users that didn't apply to any existing topics on FHUG. It would have seemed a little weird to create a topic for a particular user in order to determine if it was okay to send them an email.
I have only sent a couple of emails using the email capability in FHUG. Those were for questions I had of a couple of users that didn't apply to any existing topics on FHUG. It would have seemed a little weird to create a topic for a particular user in order to determine if it was okay to send them an email.
Bill Henshaw