* Death certificate research question

[Robert Jacobs]

Strictly speaking this isn't an FH7 question, but I beg your indulgence.. I'm not at all familiar with UK documents or practices.

The name and birth year of the person described in the below index entry from Ancestry.com matches those of a third cousin in my data. All I know thus far is the year of his birth, his wife's name and his parents' names.

Name Roman Abraham J Ferst
Death Age 85
Birth Date 24 Apr 1918
Registration Date Jul 2003
Registration district Kensington and Chelsea
Inferred County London
Register Number C15C
District and Subdistrict 239/1C
Entry Number 260

Ancestry offers to sell me a copy of the original death certificate for about $40 US. In order to establish the connection I would have to know either the name of his spouse or one of his parents. Would the death certificate be likely to contain that information?

Any advice welcomed; good wishes to all,

Robert

[Valkrider]

Robert

I have just checked that certificate is available as a digital certificate for £2.50 from the GRO website https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

The attached image shows the information that you will receive (as a digital certificate you get the section in the large box with the mottled background).

Alfred Darrington death certificate.jpg (168.4 KiB) Viewed 2719 times

[RS3100]

It will show the name of the informant, who notified the death to the registrar. That may or may not be a family member depending on the circumstances or location of the death. It might also state that the deceased was the husband of {name}, but again it may not. There was no requirement to record any family members unless one happens to have been the informant as above.

If you know the deceased's place of abode from other records, the place of death may also assist if he died at home.

It can be a bit of a lottery as to what information is in the entry, but without viewing it you won't know if it helps or not.

[AntonyM]

For a death in 2003, you can only order the entry as a paper certificate (£11) from GRO or from the registration office in Kensington (who hold the original register). A digital image will not be available. The format will also be different from the example posted, having changed in 1969.

In addition to the information you have seen in the index, you should get the place of birth and the occupation of the deceased, along with the cause & place of death, and their usual address (if different).

As mentioned already you will also get the name, and address, of the informant ( the person who went to register the death), and the "qualification" that allowed them to do that. In most cases it will be a relative, and the relationship will be stated, but it can be someone else if no family were available.

The information given may not always be 100% correct - depending on the knowledge of the informant.

[David2416]

For a death in 2003, you can only order the entry as a paper certificate (£11) from GRO or from the registration office in Kensington (who hold the original register). A digital image will not be available. The format will also be different from the example posted, having changed in 1969.

Please could you explain how to order a £2.50 digital image of a death certificate for 2003. Attached is the initial screen I get:

Screenshot 2023-09-20 111511.jpg

Edited to correct certificate type and add date.

[Valkrider]

David second option down on the left hand side 'Order a digital image'

[David2416]

Please read the script underneath the item title and bear in mind the date of the certificate required.

[LornaCraig]

I’m guessing that he was not born in the UK, as I can’t find any birth indexed under that name in the UK.

Is it possible he might have been living in the UK in 1939? If so, you could try to find him in the UK 1939 Register (which can be searched on Ancestry or FindmyPast). He would have been 21 in 1939, so might have been living with his parents, whose names you say you know. The register includes people’s exact date of birth (or rather, what they said was their date of birth!) so that might confirm whether this is the right person.

(Update: I can't find him in the 1939 Register.)

[Robert Jacobs]

Thank you all. I'm going to pursue this with the GRO.

If anyone is interested, there's a dossier about Roman's cousin or brother Jakob (relationship yet to be determined and verified) who served with the Royal Engineers during the war. He applied for and was granted permanent residence in Palestine in 1946. Apart from my family interest, the papers provide much insight into the way in which the British administration of Palestine was organized in the immediate post-war period.

It's all on a single pdf file which I'd be happy to send along to anyone who would like to see it.

Thanks again to all for their help.

Robert

[fhtess65]

Best option. Never, ever buy a GRO certificate from Ancestry as they mark up the price considerably!

Thank you all. I'm going to pursue this with the GRO.
<SNIP>
Robert

[Robert Jacobs]

Indeed yes. I just finished placing the order, which amounts to £11.00. That pays for everything but the currency conversion fee that Master Card will stick me with. I'll still be well ahead of the $40 that Ancestry asked.

I was impressed by the GRO website, and a little envious. Federalism has its advantages, but among its inconveniences are the difficulty in getting vital records from some of the states — each one has its own rules.

Robert

[fhtess65]

Yes, I experience the same fee as I'm in Canada.

As for envy of the convenience of the GRO, we face the same issue here in Canada, having to abide by different rules for each province. Some, like BC, make it incredibly easy, others...not so much.

Indeed yes. I just finished placing the order which amounts to £11.00. That pays for everything but the currency conversion fee that Master Card will stick me with. I'll still be well ahead of the $40 that Ancestry asked.

I was impressed by the GRO website, and a little envious. Federalism has its advantages, but among its inconveniences are the difficulty in getting vital records from some of the states — each one has its own rules.

Robert

[Mark1834]

For the benefit of our overseas friends, it’s worth remembering that the GRO only covers England and Wales.

Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own certificates and access methods (some better than the GRO, some more restrictive).

[fhtess65]

Yes, indeed I have used Scotland's People. And then there's the Republic of Ireland which was the wonderful irishgenealogy.ie website that gives instant access to a large selection of both civil and church records, which has been hugely helpful for my research into my husband's side of the family.

For the benefit of our overseas friends, it’s worth remembering that the GRO only covers England and Wales.

Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own certificates and access methods (some better than the GRO, some more restrictive).

[gosforthian]

I don't know whether you know this. But there is a brief entry in findagrave.com for Roman Abraham Ferst who died 31 July 2003. He is buried in Bushey Jewish cemetery.

[Robert Jacobs]

Thank you, gosforthian. I don't think it showed up on Ancestry when I looked early this morning. I have two other services to try, but won't be able to get to them until later in the week. I appreciate the help.

[victor]

Just bear in mind not every certificate arrived at the GRO. If nothing is listed you can check UKBMD where many places have had the local register transcribed. Certificates from this list are from the local registry office and the list gives a bit more detail than the GRO list. Certificates from local registry offices are an exact copy of the original certificate. GRO certificates are extracts from the original.
My mother's 2 sisters marriages are not on the GRO list. I guessed which church they married in and found them in the parish records in the local history centre
Victor

[Robert Jacobs]

Thank you, Victor. The record apparently exists as the GRO site reports that they mailed it to me on September 26. It hasn't arrived yet. I await today's delivery impatiently.

It was a good idea to check parish records. Here in the U.S., consistent state government record-keeping (except along the Atlantic coast) only really began circa 1890 or 1900. Church records aren't always accessible to me. The distances are great and traveling sometimes seems too burdensome. There are, however, a lot of local histories everywhere which are usually library-accessible, either electronically or through the inter-library loan system. They have been very helpful.

Thanks again — all good wishes.

Robert

[fhtess65]

In my experience with overseas paper certs from the GRO, the delivery time is about 3 weeks...I'm in Canada, so YMMV, depending on the efficiency of the USPS as well as the Royal Mail.

Thank you, Victor. The record apparently exists as the GRO site reports that they mailed it to me on September 26. It hasn't arrived yet. I await today's delivery impatiently.

<SNIP>
Robert

[Robert Jacobs]

Thanks, Teresa. Knowing that helps suppress my jitters if the box remains empty day after day

Robert

[Robert Jacobs]

Exactly right, Teresa. the certificate arrived today, 23 days after the GRO said they sent it. The good news is that it's the right person: the birth dates match and the certificate informant was a son whose existence was unknown to me — a new third cousin in fact.

Best wishes and thanks to all who responded.

Robert

[fhtess65]

Glad to hear it finally arrived and that it's for the correct person! Post from the UK seems to be taking much longer these days.

Exactly right, Teresa. the certificate arrived today, 23 days after the GRO said they sent it. The good news is that it's the right person: the birth dates match and the certificate informant was a son whose existence was unknown to me — a new third cousin in fact.

Best wishes and thanks to all who responded.

Robert