* [Closed] Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

For Wish List Requests that have either (a) been progressed to the Wish List; or (b) been classified as duplicates, or as redundant because the requirement is already satisfied within FH and/or plugins; or (c) closed because it wasn't possible to arrive at a clear specification of the request within 15 months of it being raised.
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rcpettit
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[Closed] Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by rcpettit »

Would love to see a tab added to the sources property dialog that displays a list of citations for that source similar to what is done with the citations to source record under the view menu, but auto updates so you don't have keep running the command.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Is there any support for this?
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by tatewise »

If there is interest then it would be logically consistent to do something similar for other record types that can be linked to subsidiary fields of a record.

The View > Record Links... command works well for Repository, Research Note, and Source Template records as they can only be linked to the top of a record.

That command is not so good for Note, Source, and Media records that can be linked to a wide variety of fields, so listing just the records that use them is of limited help.

A possibly more consistent option than a Property Box tab might be an update to the Tools > Work with Data command for Notes, Sources, Media, and possibly other record types too.
That would offer Edit, Merge, Where Used, and other features similar to the way Places and Addresses do now.
There is a direct analogy to Place records that can be linked to various subsidiary Place fields in various records.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by AdrianBruce »

rcpettit wrote: 07 Oct 2023 18:37 Would love to see a tab added to the sources property dialog that displays a list of citations for that source ... but auto updates so you don't have keep running the command.
Perhaps I shouldn't be straying into the implementation constraints but I'm a touch concerned about the machine loading of having an auto-updating tab for my source record for FreeBMD... Having said that - that precise citation list comes up remarkably quickly.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Like Adrian, I wonder if this might introduce problems for lumpers if it's implemented as an auto-updating Property Box tab. If it's done (and I don't personally have a use for it), I'd rather see it as a development of View > Record links.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by KFN »

rcpettit wrote: 07 Oct 2023 18:37 Would love to see a tab added to the sources property dialog that displays a list of citations for that source similar to what is done with the citations to source record under the view menu, but auto updates so you don't have keep running the command.
I would be very interested in knowing what citations were connected to a particular source!

For example: A census from 1900 gets cited for almost anyone alive at that time and place.

For example: A book about the history of a place or family may get cited multiple times from several different pages. Knowing this would prompt me to re-read all of those pages at a later time!
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

KFN wrote: 13 Dec 2023 18:05
rcpettit wrote: 07 Oct 2023 18:37 Would love to see a tab added to the sources property dialog that displays a list of citations for that source similar to what is done with the citations to source record under the view menu, but auto updates so you don't have keep running the command.
I would be very interested in knowing what citations were connected to a particular source!

For example: A census from 1900 gets cited for almost anyone alive at that time and place.

For example: A book about the history of a place or family may get cited multiple times from several different pages. Knowing this would prompt me to re-read all of those pages at a later time!
Try the Where Used Record Links plugin.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by tatewise »

Those recent concerns do not apply to my suggestion to enhance the Tools > Work With Data command options.
It already has the features requested for the Place records, so why not extend it to Source records and others?
The Where Used option is what triggered my Where Used Record Links plugin, which as Helen says, does offer a solution to the OP for Source records and any others.
IMO extending the Tools > Work With Data command to most types of record with a Where Used button that creates a Result Set similar to my plugin would make my plugin redundant.

BTW: I don't think extending the View > Record Links... command would provide a suitable result because a Result Set is typically needed to list the details of Where Used.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

I foresee confusion... if you want to see some sorts of record links go to View > Record links, and for others, Tools > Work with data. We've complained in the past about inconsistencies and this would feel like introducing a new one.

Perhaps we should leave it to CP to decide where to put it and just ask for 'A menu item to...' i.e. focus on what we want to be able to do via a menu item, not how it should be implemented.

Mike, a point of clarity? Are you proposing to extend the scope of the request?
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by tatewise »

The OP was requesting a Property Box tab, not a menu command.

Unfortunately, Tools > Work with Data... does not support all the record types whereas View > Record Links... does support all record types but does not provide details such as the actual Citations associated with a Source record, or the fields associated with a Media record.

Yes, my proposal would potentially extend the scope and prefer a menu command approach.

We have not heard anything further from the OP proposer yet!
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

The OP was suggesting a Property Box tab as a means to achieve an end. Two of us have expressed concerns about that approach. I'm trying to explore ways to achieve the end without encountering objections especially as nobody has expressed any support for the property box tab idea.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by tatewise »

I think we are in agreement, as I was similarly exploring better ways to achieve the objective.

I guess the inconsistency you referred to is the Property Box tab idea instead of building on existing commands.
The OP states that his idea benefits from not needing to run a command but it does need a click to open the tab!

IMO the new View > Citations to Source Record... command is inconsistent because it does not build on existing commands, i.e. CP could have used Tools > Work with Data > Sources... and a Where Used button.

A slight annoyance is that only one record or data item can have Where Used applied.
I would like multiple records or data items to be possible just like my Where Used Record Links plugin.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Mike,

Most importantly, given we already have View Citations to Source Record, I don't see the benefits of clicking on a tab (as per the OP) rather than clicking on the existing menu item or Alt-V-C, and placement of a menu item to meet need is moot. Unless anyone voices support for the auto-updating Property Box Tab option by the New Year, I shall close the request.

===============================================================================

If you are proposing to extend the scope of the request, I think that warrants its own topic, but I'll say this about menu design:

I think confusion might arise if any new menu item was placed under Work with Data rather than View.

Work with Data does not currently include any links, and (mostly) allows data changes to be made. [Fact Witness Sentences is an oddity in this regard].

View Record Links does include links and doesn't allow changes to be made in the pop-up display. (You have to navigate to the linked record to edit it in context).

So I would place the stuff you're talking about as a modification to the behaviour of View Record Links.

Placement of an item in a menu doesn't have to be dictated by the underlying code; CP can still build on existing code -- and anyway, we don't take implementation into account here.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by tatewise »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 14 Dec 2023 10:12 I think confusion might arise if any new menu item was placed under Work with Data rather than View.

Work with Data does not currently include any links, and (mostly) allows data changes to be made.
FYI: Sorry, but you appear to have misunderstood what I have been proposing and what Work with Data offers.
I am referring to the existing Work with Data dialogue Where Used... button that does list in detail in a Result Set all the links to the data item chosen.
For example, in Tools > Work with Data > Places... select a Place record and click Where Used... to obtain a Result Set which lists everywhere that Place is used. The same works for Addresses, Occupations, etc...
If other records were added to Work with Data then they would have a Where Used... button in their dialogue.
So if there was a Tools > Work with Data > Sources... dialogue its Where Used... button would presumably produce a Result Set identical to what View > Citations for Source Record... currently does.

I may start a new topic on this Where Used concept for all record types because I think FH V7 is rather weak in that area, especially as several new features such as Rich Text, Source Templates, and Research Notes have added many more link options.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

I think a new topic is an excellent idea.
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by jelv »

Would (or could) any of the possibilities being suggested meet the highlighted requirement of the OP?
rcpettit wrote: 07 Oct 2023 18:37 Would love to see a tab added to the sources property dialog that displays a list of citations for that source similar to what is done with the citations to source record under the view menu, but auto updates so you don't have keep running the command.
Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, can you add or change a citation without the property box moving to a different record?
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Re: Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by tatewise »

jelv wrote: 14 Dec 2023 15:02 Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, can you add or change a citation without the property box moving to a different record?
Yes, by running a Query and deleting stuff, or by running a Plugin, and probably other things too...

I have some ideas that may be preferable to an auto-updated tab. I will post a New Wish List Request soon.
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Re: [Closed] Add new tab for citations in Source tab.

Post by Vyger »

Moved to Closed Items due to lack of support and being superseded by another proposal.
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