* [Wish List Item 628] Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

For Wish List Requests that have either (a) been progressed to the Wish List; or (b) been classified as duplicates, or as redundant because the requirement is already satisfied within FH and/or plugins; or (c) closed because it wasn't possible to arrive at a clear specification of the request within 15 months of it being raised.
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Gowermick
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[Wish List Item 628] Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Gowermick »

When saving Diagram using the Save Diagram As/ Custom Diagram, show the user the list of currently saved Custom Diagrams. This gives them the choice of creating a new Diagram, or replacing/updating an existing one.

Currently, if the user chooses a Name for their Custom Diagram that already exists, the original file is overwritten, with no warning to the user. (Raised with Calico Pie - Ticket 534764)
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Have CP responded to the ticket associated with this?
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Gowermick »

Martin CP wrote:
Thank you for reporting that. We did some tests and what you describe is not exactly what we found. In our tests if you open a custom diagram and save changes to it, using "Save as Custom Diagram", the name of the custom diagram will display by default and you will not get any warning if you click OK. However, if you change the name to the name of another diagram type, or if you save a diagram as a custom diagram that was not opened as a custom diagram, you will, in both cases, be warned if you're about to overwrite an existing custom diagram.
Helen,
Sorry for delay in replying, but I didn't get notified of your request (or I missed it :D )

I received above reply from Martin the same day as ticket raised, but failed to notify FHUG - my bad

It would seem that either I was mistaken when I raised the ticket, or it has since been corrected, as the symptoms I described in the ticket, no longer apply.

Perhaps it should be changed into a wish list item "When saving a custom diagram via Diagram>Save As... dialogue, FH show the current contents of destination directory, so that users can select existing chart to overwrite, or know which charts already exist, so they can create a new one. (A common feature in other software, like Word or GIMP)

I was thinking of the scenario when user is producing a specific chart for each member of a family, so would like to know which ones had already been produced, without having to go back and forth between File Explorer and FH.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Mike, you can see what Saved Charts exists via Charts > Saved Charts without having to resort to File Explorer.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Gowermick »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 28 Nov 2022 08:36 Mike, you can see what Saved Charts exists via Charts > Saved Charts without having to resort to File Explorer.
I am aware of that, but it would be nice to see that list of existing charts, whilst saving a new one, without having to go to another window/menu option, or having to resort to making notes of what I’ve already done. I’m only suggesting CP provide what I find useful in other software packages.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Mike, I wasn't decrying your suggestion, just pointing out that your use case
I was thinking of the scenario when user is producing a specific chart for each member of a family, so would like to know which ones had already been produced, without having to go back and forth between File Explorer and FH.
is perhaps not the best to choose to illustrate the need.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by LornaCraig »

Gowermick wrote: 28 Nov 2022 08:22
Perhaps it should be changed into a wish list item "When saving a custom diagram via Diagram>Save As... dialogue, FH show the current contents of destination directory, so that users can select existing chart to overwrite, or know which charts already exist, so they can create a new one. (A common feature in other software, like Word or GIMP)

I was thinking of the scenario when user is producing a specific chart for each member of a family, so would like to know which ones had already been produced, without having to go back and forth between File Explorer and FH.
I'm confused. In your original post you referred to "the list of currently saved Custom Diagrams". That is what CP responded to.
But you are now talking about saved Charts which are not the same thing. Which do you mean?

I agree it woud be useful, when saving a new diagram as either a Diagram Type or a Chart, to see a drop-down menu of those which already exist, but in both cases you do get a warning if you choose a name which already exists.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Gowermick »

Lorna,
I blame CP, who seem to interchange the terms diagrams and charts willy nilly.
Whatever it is I am saving, I’d like to see a list of previously saved items, as you succinctly put in your second paragraph :D
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Mark1834 »

If FH7 was being released today as a new product, I suspect they would be called Charts and Chart Templates, as there is an (imperfect) analogy with Sources and Source Templates. Both types would be saved as files, rather than file for one, Registry for the other. It’s very much a no-win for CP now this confusion has been allowed to develop - I can hear the howls already from long-time users if it’s made easier for newcomers to remember and understand... ;)
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by tatewise »

Mark, where do saved Family Historian Charts fit into that naming concept?
Maybe the terms could be Charts (instead of Diagrams), Chart Templates (instead of Custom Diagram Types) and Saved Charts.

To be consistent Reports would need to have Report Templates (instead of Custom Report Types).
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Mark1834 »

Bearing in mind that this is purely hypothetical of course, and similar discussions have probably been held in Orde Towers over the years in much more detail. If it was straightforward, they would have done it already...

A simple model is that a Chart Template is something that defines what a Chart looks like, but has no data. A Chart is a Template filled in with the data for one (or more?) Record, but is still dynamic in that it refreshes itself whenever it is opened. The main menu entry would become View > Charts and Templates. Much of the top half of the dropdown relates to Templates, Custom Diagrams become Custom Templates, and Saved Charts are exactly that, with no change of name.

Reports/Report Templates works for me.

The fly in the ointment is that CP introduced the Pedigree Chart in FH7, which is not dynamic and formatted for printing rather than screen display. So that's a third type - no wonder users get confused and there is probably no simple solution that ticks all the boxes - internally consistent, easy to understand, broadly similar to other competing app terminology, and not alienating the existing loyal user base! :)
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by davidf »

Mark1834 wrote: 28 Nov 2022 14:42 If FH7 was being released today as a new product, I suspect they would be called Charts and Chart Templates, as there is an (imperfect) analogy with Sources and Source Templates. Both types would be saved as files, rather than file for one, Registry for the other. It’s very much a no-win for CP now this confusion has been allowed to develop - I can hear the howls already from long-time users if it’s made easier for newcomers to remember and understand... ;)
Of course if they were all (the actual "things" and the templates for those "things") saved as files, FH could use the standard Operating System Save and Open Dialogues and you could see what names already existed. (Backups might also be more "obvious" and packaging up to share would be easier).

If CP use "Registry storage" so that the can hold a list of currently defined/saved "things" (charts/diagrams/reports/etc.). I would be quite happy if they only held a list achieved by going to the relevant subdirectory of the project folder hierarchy - or if items are held at "application level" rather than "project level" at some specified directory that is the equivalent of "appData". I store anything elsewhere at my own risk!
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Mark1834 »

Hmm, an Operating System that doesn't have a complex Registry, and keeps its configuration data in easy to troubleshoot plain text files. It'll never catch on... :D
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by LornaCraig »

I think the original request comes down to this:

Issues:
When saving a new diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart the user is presented with a field in which to enter the name of the Diagram Type or Chart. If the name has already been used a warning message appears asking if the user wants to replace the existing Diagram Type / Chart of that name. Usually the answer will be No, but occasionally the user might want to replace an old version. It would be helpful if, instead of presenting the user with a blank box, a list of existing Diagram Types /Charts were displayed so that the user can either select an existing one or ‘Create New’.

Proposal:
When saving a new diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart FH should display a drop-down menu of those which already exist so that the user can choose to replace an existing one or create a new one without having to remember which names have already been used.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by tatewise »

Rather than a dropdown menu I suggest a popup window so that if the list is long a vertical scroll bar can be applied.
c.f. The Main Toolbar Charts > Saved Charts... command.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

What about:

When saving a new diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart FH should display the Diagram Types or Charts which already exist so that the user can choose to replace an existing one or create a new one without having to remember which names have already been used.

Rather than trying to design the interface for CP.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by Mark1834 »

You're telling CP how to do it. We should phrase it according to what we want - a means to select an existing option or create a new one.

Snap - posted the same time as Helen :)
Last edited by Mark1834 on 02 Jun 2023 17:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by LornaCraig »

Whatever is more practical. Perhaps the proposal should just say "FH should display a list of those which already exist ..." then CP can decide how to implement it.
[Helen's and Mark's posts came in as I was writing this.]
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by fhtess65 »

Agreed - I would find this useful, whether a drop-down or a pop-up.
ColeValleyGirl wrote: 02 Jun 2023 17:04 What about:

When saving a new diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart FH should display the Diagram Types or Charts which already exist so that the user can choose to replace an existing one or create a new one without having to remember which names have already been used.

Rather than trying to design the interface for CP.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Are there any objections to the following Wish List Item being raised:

==========================================

Issues:
When saving a new diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart the user is presented with a field in which to enter the name of the Diagram Type or Chart. If the name has already been used a warning message appears asking if the user wants to replace the existing Diagram Type / Chart of that name. Usually the answer will be No, but occasionally the user might want to replace an old version. It would be helpful if, instead of presenting the user with a blank box, a list of existing Diagram Types /Charts were displayed so that the user can either select an existing one or ‘Create New’.

Proposal:
When saving a new diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart FH should display the Diagram Types or Charts which already exist so that the user can choose to replace an existing one or create a new one without having to remember which names have already been used.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by LornaCraig »

That looks good.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by tatewise »

Why restrict it to new diagrams? I suggest dropping the word 'new' so that the proposed feature applies to saving an existing Custom Diagram Type or an existing Family Historian Chart too, in which case the existing name is offered as the default, but another could be chosen from the list or a new one entered that user can see does not conflict with the list.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by AdrianBruce »

tatewise wrote: 13 Dec 2023 15:19 Why restrict it to new diagrams? ...
A good point - I am sometimes in the habit of taking a "thing" and amending it to produce "thing v2" if I want to keep the original 'just in case'. I am also quite capable of not realising "thing v2" already exists...
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Updated:

Issues:
When saving a diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart the user is presented with a field in which to enter the name of the Diagram Type or Chart. If the name has already been used a warning message appears asking if the user wants to replace the existing Diagram Type / Chart of that name. Usually the answer will be No, but occasionally the user might want to replace an old version. It would be helpful if, instead of presenting the user with a blank box, a list of existing Diagram Types /Charts were displayed so that the user can either select an existing one or ‘Create New’.

Proposal:
When saving a diagram as either a Custom Diagram Type or a Family Historian Chart FH should display the Diagram Types or Charts which already exist so that the user can choose to replace an existing one or create a new one without having to remember which names have already been used.
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Re: Save Diagram As Custom Dialogue

Post by AdrianBruce »

OK
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