* How to create a custom fact for Electoral roll from Residence

[jsphillips]

Hi
I wonder if some kind soul could guide me how to create a new custom fact from the Residence fact. I want to continue using the residence fact for occasions when I find an address NOT from Electoral Rolls
But when finding data from Electoral Rolls I wish the wording to be "Electoral Rolls" (not residence) but by using how the Residence fact was created. I am fully aware about Gedcom 5.5.1 etc .

I use Roots Magic and Family Treemaker as well all paid for !!
When I enter any data at all I enter it separately on all 3 programs. Each of these 3 programs have merits and dismerits and for my clients using any one of these 3 programs it is easy to transfer.

[tatewise]

Please give us a few more clues.
It seems you don't want to create a separate custom fact.
You want to always use the standard Residence fact, but conditionally change its display when used for Electoral Rolls.

So what criteria can be used to automatically make that conditional change?
Will there always be a particular type of Source Citation at the top of the list that can be tested?
Alternatively, are you prepared to add a Descriptor field to the Residence fact via the All tab?

Where do you want the wording of "Electoral Rolls" to appear?
In the top pane of the Facts tab?
Below that at the head of the lower pane?
Below that in the Sentence wording?
In the Records Window for those facts?
In Diagrams and Reports for those facts?

[jsphillips]

Thanks for your prompt reply Mike
I want a Separate Fact named Electoral Rolls (or Electoral Register)

It needs to have ALL the attributes of Residence.
Facts tab ,Sentence wording identical in every way but the wording where applicable to show where relevant Electoral roll address.
Some early Electoral Rolls show different data than the later ones.
The Later ones give the following data :-
Electoral Year , Address inc Number , (sometimes just a house name ) Polling District name Ward no where Relevant
and number, & Entry number (which today appears on your voting card)
Example below +
1933 Census, No 37 Polling District, Sydenham East Ward, Silverdale Road SE26, House number 23 (or name ie Nursery Cottage) Entry number 1922

Earlier ones show in place of say (as above) 37 Polling District ... then showed County of Gloucester Polling District of Stanway Parish of Toddington.
That is why Residence is not always satisfactory .. maybe ok for Mr B lived at xxxx in 1936 perhaps obtained from say a school report or other medium.
Would be grateful it would appear as a proper fact box as Add etc.
Thanks
John

[tatewise]

There have been various discussions on how best to record Electoral Roll details, usually involving Ancestral Sources.
Create new template - Electoral Roll (14457) in Dec 2016.
Liverpool Electoral Register - 1939/1940 (17469) in Feb 2020.
Electoral Rolls (15828) in May 2018 and Oct 2020.
I know some are quite long but it is a complex subject.
That last posting ends with Nick Walker announcing that the next Ancestral Sources version will support Electoral Rolls and can use a Census, Residence, or Custom fact. So you may wish to wait for that before going too much farther.

FYI:
All facts exhibit identical characteristics, whether standard or custom, except that Attributes have an extra Value field.
So whether you use a standard Residence or a custom fact the only fields available are Date, Age, Place, Address & Note, plus a Value for Attributes. Any facts (standard or custom) can be included on the Fast-Add Menu.

The particular details of an Electoral Roll document would be fully recorded in its Source record.
The associated facts (Census, Residence, or Custom) would just be a summary with a Citation of the Source record.
That is much the same as for most other Source documents, so you need to decide what information from the Electoral Roll document needs to be recorded in each fact field (Date, Age, Place, Address, Note).

You mentioned the Sentence wording, so presumably intend to use Narrative Reports. Please confirm.
It is perfectly possible for the Residence fact Sentence to be worded to include Date, Age, Place, Address & Note values and adapt to which fields have values and which are blank. So a Residence fact could say:
In 1933 John Smith lived at 23, Silverdale Road, SE26 in Sydenham East Ward, England aged 35 as recorded in the 1933 Electoral Roll, No 37 Polling District, Entry 1922.
i.e. Date = 1933 Address = 23, Silverdale Road, SE26 Place = Sydenham East Ward, England Age = 35 Note = 1933 Electoral Roll, No 37 Polling District, Entry 1922
but if fewer details are recorded in the fact fields it might just say:
In 1936 John Smith lived at 123, High Street.
i.e. Date = 1936 Address = 123, High Street
Those alternatives can be automatically accommodated by a single Sentence Template and does not need a custom fact.

Are you still sure that you need a custom fact?
Or do you just need a more comprehensive Sentence Template for the Residence fact?

[jsphillips]

Thanks Mike and all
It is getting far to complicated for what I think is a straight forward event
I will just use Notes and just add per person/family all the detail which gets printed out on Family Group Sheet and Individual Report
FTM records this as a separate fact !
The saying goes " KISS " (keep it simple Stupid)
Best regards
John

[tatewise]

Sorry John, but you were the one requesting a complex sentence structure including lots of information.

But you are now talking about Family Group Sheet and Individual Summary Report that does not use Sentences.

So why not simply use the Residence fact and fill in all the desired fields? That is even simpler.

You suggest that FTM has a separate Electoral Roll fact.
FH added the Extended Set of facts to cater for FTM and Ancestry facts, but it does not include Electoral Roll.
I don't have FTM but Ancestry does not appear to have an Electoral Roll fact.
They do have an Elected fact but that is something different.

However, if you really want an Electoral Roll custom fact then use Tools > Fact Types... and click New... button.
Enter the name Electoral Roll and click Create.
In the Fact Definition tick Fast-Add Menu to include it in the Add menu.
The Sentence Template will need rewording when you have decided what you want narrative sentences to say.
So for now click OK and Close and experiment with adding that custom fact.

[jsphillips]

Thanks Mike I am thinking whether to use Notes as aforesaid or Use the Residence fact and put in Elect data therein
Thanks for everything

John

[davidm_uk]

So when using the residence fact, what template would you use for the source citation?

I've just downloaded a small tree from Ancestry, just as a test, and it's plastered lots of source citations into the FH Project, with references to Ancestry.com all over the place (I understand why, but I don't want this). The Electoral Registers don't belong to them. I'd like to modify or replace those source citations.

(PS only just updated to V7, so still getting to grips with it)

[tatewise]

Have a look at Ancestral Sources that has added Electoral Register options for UK to its Census mode.
There are Options to use either Census or Residence facts.
It also supports all the latest Source Templates should you wish to use them.

[davidm_uk]

Had a look at AS, while there's an Electoral Register option in Census mode the rest of the template is still only relevant to census information: eg. census dates, 1939 Register date, Ref Id populated with RG references, etc. Maybe I'm missing something.

[tatewise]

When you select the Electoral Register option for the UK you then choose Date ranges for various templates.
They apply Electoral Register columns to the grid that are oriented to Electoral Registers and NOT Census.
No Ref ID is preset in the case of those templates, so there is no RG reference!
Some of the terminology may still refer to Census Date, etc, but they are Electoral Register details that you enter.

In the Tools > Options settings for Census you can choose whether a Census or Residence fact is used to record the details.
If you change to Residence, just remember to change back to Census when capturing actual Census records.

[davidm_uk]

Ah! I just happened to have "UK, Electoral Registers, 2003-2010" as the source from Ancestry that I was wanting to enter.
The only choice in the Year field is 1945-, and then a Residence Date 2003-2004, which the Date field doesn't allow.

I note that Census entries set the Title to Census 1961 <Year> but the Electoral Register doesn't include the date in the Title. I think that the last time I used FH (v6), probably over a couple of years ago, I used to amend the Title as the last thing I did before saving the AS entry, as the auto generated title didn't fit what I wanted. The brain has got a bit rusty!

[tatewise]

When I tried it, the Date was automatically included in the Title along with the Name of the first person.
But the date must be valid and AS doesn't seem to allow range dates.
So just enter 2003 for the time being and alter the Date to 'from 2003 to 2004' in the Facts in FH afterwards.
I had to use the Tab keyboard key to get AS to review the Date and remove the red exclamation mark.

Maybe Nick needs to be requested to allow range dates?

[davidm_uk]

Thanks for your help Mike, as always.

[AdrianBruce]

I had to satisfy my curiosity about just what Ancestry's UK, Electoral Registers, 2003-2010 actually is. Based on samples who I recognise, it looks like one record in that collection represents a run of actual Electoral Registers at the same address for that person. So if Fred Bloggs is at 1 High St, Ambridge for the 2003 thru 2007 Electoral Registers, then there will be one record in the Ancestry collection with a date range of 2003-2007.

The issue is that no real Electoral Register has a range of dates for residence - the 2003 Register, e.g., represents residence at that address at a specific qualifying date in 2002 (I think). This may be why AS and any other template-type description do not accommodate a date range - they cater only for real Registers. Using them for the Ancestry collection, on the other hand, would require a range to describe what's in the Ancestry collection.

[davidm_uk]

Thank you Adrian, that probably explains why Ancestry says that there are no images available for that data set.

However by that reasoning the date range I showed for the individual, "Residence Date 2003-2004", implies that the person was at that address from 2003 to 2004, but I didn't think that those registers were compiled every year. Having said that we seem to be getting letters more often from the councils now about updating our information for the voters registry.

[AdrianBruce]

Electoral Registers are compiled every year - in fact in the years immediately after WW1 (vague hand-waving to obscure the fact that I don't remember which years), they were compiled twice-yearly. They represent the situation on a nationally fixed qualifying date which (off the top of my head) is some months prior to the commencement date of the register in question. (The dates have varied over the years and I'm certain that I don't have the full data).

What definitely confuses is that the Ancestry collection is taken from the publically available register - which people can opt out of (my family isn't in so we must have opted out). What may or may not confuse, is if Ancestry didn't have access to the full set of public registers.

[brianlummis]

Anyone wanting the definitive explanation of the Electoral Registers in the UK can find the answer at https://electoralregisters.org.uk/index

[AdrianBruce]

Yes, what's especially useful is the British Library guide referred to on https://www.bl.uk/collection-guides/uk- ... -registers which is also accessed from More Information / British Library Fact Sheet on the link that Brian posted above (for which, thanks). The important topic of dates (of which there are several aplicable to a register for different purposes) is covered from p.20 onwards.