* Paste a 'New' Copy

For Wish List Requests that have either (a) been progressed to the Wish List; or (b) been classified as duplicates, or as redundant because the requirement is already satisfied within FH and/or plugins; or (c) closed because it wasn't possible to arrive at a clear specification of the request within 15 months of it being raised.
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Gowermick
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Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

After moving to Method 1, my sources now contain a lot more text in their title e.g Census 1901 RG13 Piece 1234 Folio 567 Page 89.

When I find a new Source, I need to
A: Check source hasn't been used before
B: Create a new source if it is a new entry, ensuring Title is in kept consistent with similar sources.

The check is accomplished by searching existing sources for a match, if none found, clicking on New Source to create a new one. This opens the Source Creation Dialogue box with empty fields which have to be completed before creating the new source.

Sometimes, however, a very close match is found, but currently there is no method of using this close match as a basis for the new source.
e.g. Using above citation as an example, I found it didn't exist, but Census 1901 RG13 Piece 1234 Folio 565 Page 87 did exist.

My wish is for a means whereby highlighting the close match, and clicking a new Copy Source Details button, the Source Creation Dialogue box is opened, but this time with the details of the highlighted source already inserted, ready for editing into a new source.

Then, when editing is done, the new source is created as normal.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

Mike, first of all I would strongly recommend using Ancestral Sources for new Census and BMD data capture, perhaps after cheking for a matching existing Source. AS has customisable templates to ensure consistent naming conventions are maintained for all the records and files it creates.

Secondly there is the Clone Any Record Plugin that can either copy the similar Source record or a bare-bones template Source record, and then you can edit the resulting record as required.

Finally, I think FH already comes close to what you have requested.
Once you have found as similar Source record, then open its Property Box dialogue.
Now use the Add > Source command and the Property Box dialogue shows the new record.
Click the white Go Back arrow at the top to return to the original similar Source record.
Then select and Copy any required box such as Title field.
Click the white Go Forward arrow to return to the new Source record.
Then Paste into the matching box such as Title and edit as required.
Repeat for as many fields as you like.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by LornaCraig »

As an alternative to the Clone Any Record plugin (which works for all record types) you can use the Automatic Source citations pane to find and clone a Source record.

Click the yelow scroll icon in the main toolbar (not the one in a Property box) to open the pane.
To find a source record similar to the one you want to create, start typing the first few letters of the Source name in the Source Title field. (Note: this field only displays the long title, not short titles). When you have selected the Source you want to copy, click the gear wheel icon to the right and select Clone Source Record. The new record will be created with the same details as the original but a different ID number. Simply edit the details in its Property box.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Mike

Although your way works, with many fields in a source, too cumbersone. Why not let computer do the copying for you, with one click of a button?


Lorna,

Your suggestion makes more sense, and perhaps makes my 'wish' somewhat redundant. However, a 'Clone' button on the 'Select Source' dialogue box, alongside 'New...', would make it even simpler :D

Edit: Lorna, with the 'Clone' software code already written, linking the code to a button would be relatively simple, hardly any effort at all.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

I did overlook the method suggested by Lorna.

Mike, did you try the Clone Any Record Plugin, because once you have found the similar Source record, the clone is produced in two clicks: Tools > Clone Any Record.

There are many other features I would far rather see Calico Pie spend there time on.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Mike,
I've not seen that plugin, I'll give it a try next session.
Thanks
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Lorna & Mike,

One flaw with both your methods of cloning, is that once the record is cloned, you've then got to find it to open its property box for editing, then you have to find it again using the citation dialogue box to assign it to your record, clunky to say the least.

My suggestion combines cloning and editing and assigning in one easy step, using just the citation dialogue box, which you have to have open to create the new source anyway. (KISS principle applies here Keep It Simple Stupid)

I disagree with Mike's last comment about using effort on more worthy things, an opinion he's fully entitled to have, but in this case, I think he's wrong. I feel the small amount of effort required is fully justified, when one considers the benefits gained by the users.

FTM deemed it so useful to have, and I made extensive use of it over the years, so why not have it in FH?
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by LornaCraig »

One flaw with both your methods of cloning, is that once the record is cloned, you've then got to find it to open its property box for editing,
I have Tools > Preferences > Workspaces set so that the Property box is open all the time in all workspaces. This means that as soon as a Source record is cloned using the Automatic Source Citation pane the Property box displays it. I don't have to find it for editing, it is right in front of me.
then you have to find it again using the citation dialogue box to assign it to your record, clunky to say the least.
Perhaps you have not fully explored the possibilities of the Automatic Source Citation pane. You will find that once you have edited the new source you can click the gear wheel icon again and select Copy Pane Citation. Then use the back-arrow on the Property box to get back to the record you want to assign it to, and simply paste it into the ciatation dialog, if you are adding this source to existing data. If you are entering new data and want the source to be cited against it, click the Enable Automatic Source Citation large rectangular button at the left of the Automatic Source Citation pane.

(Click the Help button at the extreme right of the Automatic Source Citation pane for detailed guidance.)
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Lorna,
Despite your fine explanation, there are still too many steps involved, jumping from dialogue box to dialogue box.

What I am suggesting is one simple step, using a single dialogue box.

What I think you and Mike are forgetting, is that before one wishes to add a citation to a record, one uses the citation dialogue box to see if the citation already exists. Only when you find it doesn't, do you need to clone one from an existing one, using a near match. Why would you then leave the Citation Dialogue box, just to clone what is already in front of you?

As I said before, my proposal is just an small extension of the process one follows when adding a citation. I am already in the citation dialogue box, so why not complete the process from there?
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by AdrianBruce »

I have been trying to follow this thread though it gets a bit difficult with an occasional (and inevitable) lack of clarity over which dialog box we're talking about....

I have felt for years that there should be an Edit / Copy As Record (as distinct from Copy As Text) with an equivalent Edit / Paste as Record (which would add the copied record to the appropriate records). Not sure that copying People or Families is a good idea, mind. Is this equivalent to what's being asked for? Look for the potentially close Source-Record in the Source tab of the Records window, copy it, and paste it? Then open the property box of the new record to modify as desired?

I know that the Clone Source Record option exists under the cog-wheel but I really cannot get on with that at all. The big yellow pane to me is about Citations - you get your Source sorted out first, and only then do you move onto the Citations pane. Using the Citations pane to sort out the Source Record is very wrong to my logical mind, because it's the wrong order conceptually. If you see no issue with this, feel free not to!

And I never do use that Clone cog - I always work in the Source records tab, open a record, copy the contents from the All tab (I usually tweak what I copy at this point since I seldom need the media copying), add a blank source record, go to the All tab and paste in. I'm sure you'll say it's several key-strokes too many but I'm used to it and I don't have to put my Citation cart before my Source horse. The frequent tweaks to what I copy are why I don't use the Clone plug-in, by the way.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

I have to admit I usually start with the Source. Also, a complete copy of an existing Source would include a lot that would need deleting. e.g. any linked Media would have to go, also Text From Source and Note would go, the linked Repository might need to go, and Publication Info and Title details would need editing. So for me more things would need to be deleted than the few that benefit from copy & paste.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by LornaCraig »

a complete copy of an existing Source would include a lot that would need deleting
Agreed. I normally only clone what you called in an earlier post "a bare-bones template Source record".

I sometimes use the Clone any Record plugin but I find that the Property box continues to display the original record rather than the new clone, so it is necessary to go back to the Records window to select the new record for editing. When the Automatic Source Citation pane was introduced with the Clone Source Record option I started using that because the Property box immediately displays the new record ready for editing.

Adrian: I agree with your reservations about "the big yellow pane". Actually, cloning is the only thing I use it for! I never enable the automatic Source citations in case I forget to disable them again, so I just copy and paste.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Adrian,

Sorry about the confusion concerning dialogue boxes. Like you, when I want to add a citation, I click the 'Add Citation' button, and up pops a dialogue box for me to a) Select a Source then b) add a citation. This is the dialogue box I wish to modify by adding a 'Clone Source' button, alongside the 'Ok', 'Create New...' and 'Cancel' buttons.

With method 1, most if not all of the detail is in the Source record itself, with little added in the citation, which is why I feel cloning an existing source would be so useful.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Jane »

You can clone source records when using the Auto Source Citation on V6, just use the Gear wheel once you have picked up a source
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by LornaCraig »

Yes Jane, we've been discussing that in this thread, and that is what I do.

But Gowermick says that involves too many steps for him and he wants to be able to do it from the Select Source dialog which opens after clicking Add Citation in the Source pane of the Facts tab.

Personally I don't have a problem doing it via the Automatic Source Citations pane although intuitively that is not where you would think of going if you don't actually want to use automatic citations.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Lorna and Jane,

For what it's worth, I have found a simple way to produce what I need (nearly), without the hassle involved in the cloning methods already discussed.

After clicking 'add Citation', I find a near match from the list of sources, highlight it, then copy it using Ctl-C. I ignore the warning this produces, then click the 'New' button. When the source creation dialogue box open, I paste using Ctrl-V, which pastes the title of the desired source into the 'Title' box of the source creation dialogue box.

I delete the text '[source ......]' that appears at the start of the title, and I am left with a Title suitable for amending into what I want. This works for me, as most of my source details appears solely in the title, with none in any other field.

Not perfect, but goes someway to what I want.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

Mike, you have re-iterated a point I made earlier.
If your original request for a 'Clone' button were implemented, you would get a copy of all the fields you don't want, and have to delete most of them.
As you say, you only need to Copy & Paste the Title.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Mike,
My work around may work for me, but others may want to copy the other fields as well, so a full clone would be preferable.

All I'm just asking for, is a way for the 'cloning' to be made readily available from within the source creation dialogue box, rather than opening other dialogue boxes.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

I very much doubt if anyone would want a full clone, because many of the fields would not apply.
So we are venturing into customisation to select which fields the clone button should copy.
That needs a dialogue and flags to be saved, which is more complex than the original 'simple' idea of just adding a clone button.

You say "All I'm just asking for..." but then suggest that different users would want to clone different fields, which as explained above is not so simple.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Mike,
You seem to be raising objections for the sake of it! If 'cloning' is justified elsewhere, why not here, when creating a new source? All I'm suggesting is to make it available in 'Source Creation' dialogue. You don't have to complicate it with options, the only option users need is whether to clone or not to clone.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

I am not so much raising objections as trying to identify exactly what is required.
I am convinced that a complete 'clone' is not really desirable.
(The Clone Any Record Plugin is mainly used with template records that only fill in a few fields.)

I am equally convinced that the word 'place' was misinterpreted in Wish List entries Ability to save information against places and Attaching multimedia to a Place. That resulted in only Place records being added to FH V6. Whereas, I believe that instead of 'place' what was meant was 'location' which would have included Address fields.

So I am just being prudent about what is meant by 'clone'.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Mike,
The original idea was to have a button on the create citation dialogue box, that would 'Paste' the contents of the the fields in the highlighted source, into the fields of the source creation dialogue box, to save user having to type them in. After the user has reviewed the information pasted into the fields, amending/deleting fields where necessary, they could click the Create button to complete the process.

NB The word clone was not mentioned, and has only been brought into the discussion by others.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by tatewise »

Now you have confused me :?
What is the difference between "'Clone' the contents of the fields in the highlighted source" and "'Paste' the contents of the fields in the highlighted source"?
Originally, you called it a Copy Source Details button.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by Gowermick »

Mike,
Just read my last post, which explains exactly what I am after.

You seem hung up on the semantics, calling it copy, paste or clone is immaterial.
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Re: Paste a 'New' Copy

Post by AdrianBruce »

Gowermick wrote:... Like you, when I want to add a citation, I click the 'Add Citation' button, and up pops a dialogue box for me to a) Select a Source then b) add a citation. ...
Oh that button! You know, I never use that - I had no idea it existed! Of course, I'd seen it but it sort of got classified as a label, not a button!

Under all normal circumstances, I set the source-record up first using the Source tab of the Record window (not the yellow pane above), then set the citation up in the yellow pane (somehow the new record seems to be at the top of the sources in the selection list for the citation), trigger auto-citation, and then add the fact - so the citation gets automatically done, with no need to use that button. Even if I were adding a citation to a fact that didn't previously have one, I'd still just follow my normal method of finding a source-record in the Sources tab of the Record window etc.

It's just the way I work - no wonder I got lost in your process.....
Adrian
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