* Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

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BakerJL75
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Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

I am trying to change from the standard Census tag to one I created called Census (individual). It keeps throwing up warnings until I end up Ctrl-Alt-Del out rather than clicking Close Warning forever. I have ran Validate and it says no errors found.

It does one individual then I get:
Screenshot 2021-05-12 143538.png
Screenshot 2021-05-12 143538.png (40.97 KiB) Viewed 3455 times
If I omit Mary Gallagher from being included when I run the plugin again I get a different warning:
Screenshot 2021-05-12 144640.png
Screenshot 2021-05-12 144640.png (52.02 KiB) Viewed 3455 times
I have looked at both facts, they seem identical. (I eventually will change the original Census sentence.) I have looked at the sources and see no issues. For example, Mary Gallagher Census in July 1860, the source is Armstrong County and it looks fine:
Screenshot 2021-05-12 150017.png
Screenshot 2021-05-12 150017.png (228.14 KiB) Viewed 3455 times
I've checked the "Amelia" source as well and see no issues. It seems to do a few and then throw up more warnings. (A lot more.)

I do use citation media rather than source media if that's the problem. Any ideas what I should look for?
Thanks,
Jackie
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tatewise
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

I'm sorry about that Jackie.
Updating the Change Any Fact Tag plugin to cater for templated Source Citation Fields and Rich Text is on my to-do list but not a top priority as other updates were more urgent and I had not expected fact changes involving those new features so soon.

I can fix it quite quickly but I am rather concerned about why you would want to change those standard Census Events.
They are as crucial as the standard Birth, Marriage & Death Events not just in FH but in every other product you might need to export to. I don't think you would contemplate changing those BMD standard events.
Many features of FH and AS and Plugins depend on standard Census Events to operate correctly.
See FHUG Knowledge Base Recording from a Census Record for examples.
If you switch to a custom census fact then those features will be broken.

Are you really sure you need to change to using those custom events?
What is your objective?

I can't think of anything you can do with a custom fact that you couldn't do with the standard Census Event.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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BakerJL75
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

Here is my thought process, and if it's not a good idea, let me know. I know it's not advised, but I like shared census facts. And census (family) for that matter. However, that leads to the problem that Look up Missing Census facts and Individual Census report does not work. I am hoping for the best of both worlds. My thought is to change the Census fact to Census (individual). Then remove Sentences and roles from the existing Census fact and use {blank} so it doesn't print. I will add the Census fact (now blank) to each census the person has. That way the reports will work, but I can still get the witness sentences I desire.

I know many love Ancestral Sources, but I'm not crazy about it and don't use it. (I use John Cardinal's ORA instead, maybe because I started with it first and know it.)

If I ever export to a different program it will be a mess. But the two programs besides FH that I suspect I might ever use are RootsMagic and Legacy, and both support witnesses and family facts. (Pretty sure Legacy does, been awhile.) And templated sources might be a big issue if I ever export as well.

Thoughts?

And I'm not in a hurry. I have plenty of other things to work on.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

Jackie, I suspect you have not actually experimented with your proposal because I don't think it will work as you planned.

The primary problem is that setting the Census event Sentence Template to {blank} only affects Narrative Reports.
That has no effect on the Individual Summary Report, Family Group Sheet, Outline Reports, etc, nor on Diagrams.
So you would need customised versions of all those Reports and Diagrams that excluded the standard Census Event.

The strategy requires every Census to be captured at least twice as a standard Census Event and a custom Census event plus Fact Witnesses. I need to check, but I suspect it is possible to add Fact Witnesses to the standard Census Events and achieve the same objective.

I presume John Cardinal's ORA expects to use standard Census Events just like AS, so poses the same constraint.

I don't think Legacy supports Family Census events.

Templated Sources are a possible problem with any product, but enough is exported using the Export Gedcom File plugin to provide sufficient source details for most puposes.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Mark1834
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by Mark1834 »

Just a thought (and from somebody who never uses the plugin) - we know from the work on importing RM templated sources that the basic structures are remarkably similar in the two apps. Presumably it would be possible in principle to update the export plugin to reproduce almost exact copies of FH templated sources in RM. Whether it would ever be worth doing is a different question of course!
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

Thanks Mark. I have suggested the same elsewhere, but whether there is any interest in exporting that degree of synchronising Source Templates is yet to be determined.

Jackie, I've had a brief look at what I believe are your objectives and summarise my thoughts below.

The baseline is to use standard Census Events in a conventional manner, each with a shared Source Citation.
That supports all the conventional features such as Diagram Census facts & icons, Individual Census Report, all other Reports, Property Box Census tab, Ancestral Sources, John Cardinal's ORA, plus many Queries and Plugins.

Supplement that with a description of the family household relationships mainly for Narrative Reports.
I wonder if you intend to do that for EVERY household, or only for your direct ancestral line and their close relatives?
  1. One method is to add a descriptive Note directly to the Census Events and include those in the Reports via such as the Report Options or the Sentence Template {note} code. That free text can say exactly what you want, but does need to be similar in every Census Event.
    *
  2. Use Fact Witnesses on the Census Event of each head of household and obscure the Census Events of the others by:
    1. Setting their Fact Flag to Private and use the Report Options Privacy tab to hide private facts.
    2. Setting their specific Sentence box to Exclude Sentence, i.e. use {blank} code.
In Narrative Reports, either of those techniques includes links to Source Citation Footnotes for the Census Event itself.
Strangely, other Reports don't include that for option b. and need the Citation on the Fact Witnesses too.

Those options seem easier to implement than having a separate custom Census fact.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

I presume John Cardinal's ORA expects to use standard Census Events just like AS, so poses the same constraint.
ORA can be configured for any setup desired. You create templates to tell it what to do. I mainly use it to pull in source data, but it can also be set up to input fact information. Both are dependent on what transcribed text is presented at the desired website. Gedsite also is happy with any fact I create.
I don't think Legacy supports Family Census events.
I have more time this morning, so I ran Legacy 9. It does support Family Census events.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

I appreciate the thought you have put into this, but may be confused.
I wonder if you intend to do that for EVERY household,
I plan to start with ancestors and their children. If time permits I might do more.
One method is to add a descriptive Note directly to the Census Events
Adding a descriptive note to each event would be quite time consuming, even if I copy and paste parts of it.
Use Fact Witnesses on the Census Event of each head of household.
If I understand correctly I would have:

Father Doe with a shared Census fact. Father would get his sentence "Father was enumerated...with Mary and Joe."
Via the witness role, Mary would get the sentence "Mary was enumerated in the household of Father along with Joe."
Then Mary would get her own second census fact marked Private? She needs that second fact or else Look up Missing Census facts and Individual Census reports do not work as they don't recognize witnesses. Individual Census Report does not acknowledge facts marked private, but Look up Missing Census facts does recognize private facts and works as desired. And it's Lookup Missing Census facts that I really would like to work.

If this is what you meant, the only other issue is that Gedsite does not recognize the Private flag, and so two Census facts print. However, I checked RootsMagic and it does recognize the Private flag there, so it might not be a huge enhancement. I'm not sure if it's one that would be of interest to many people. But it might be since if you flag something private, you don't want it to print.

If I understand what you were suggesting correctly, let me know and I'll see if John thinks recognizing the Privacy flag might be something he could do down the road. Or I can wait until the Change Any Fact Plugin is updated. None of this is urgent.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

Yes, that is the general idea...

If you only add Fact Witnesses to a subset of Census households, only a subset of Census Events needs the Private Flag.
For all other households, every member will need the Census Event without the Private Flag.

Individual Census Reports do display Private Census Events if its Report > Options > Privacy tab unticks Hide all private facts.

It is possible to use the File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File... command and exclude all Private Facts before using the Export Gedcom File plugin to export to any product. I suspect John Cardinal will get GedSite to support Private Fact Flags.

If this strategy works satisfactorily you won't need to use the Change Any Fact Tag plugin.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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BakerJL75
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

Individual Census Reports do display Private Census Events if its Report > Options > Privacy tab unticks Hide all private facts.
I never even noticed the options. I keep learning.
It is possible to use the File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File... command and exclude all Private Facts before using the Export Gedcom File plugin
I know how to make a GEDCOM to exclude the private facts. Do I then import that GEDCOM (different name) and then export it again with the plugin?

I think this will work. I will check with John about including support for Private Facts in Gedsite.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

All the Reports and Diagrams have similar Options settings.

Yes, you open the exported GEDCOM in FH and run the plugin, but if John updates GedSite then that won't be necessary.
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

He's looking into it.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

Ignore my earlier comment about Legacy and Family Census, which as you discovered is supported.
Family Census is supported by almost all products.
Inexplicably, I was thinking of Family Residence, which is only supported by the few products that support GEDCOM 5.5.1.

However, it is not advisable to use the Family Census event in FH as its support is patchy.
The Lookup Missing Census Facts plugin does recognise it but little else does by default.
The Individual Census Report excludes them by default and it is tricky to include them.
Diagrams cannot easily show Individual Census and Family Census events in chronological order, and adding Census Icons for both types of Census gets complicated.
Most downloads such as Queries and Property Box tabs don't include Family Census events without further customisation.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

Thank you for the additional information. I'll definitely consider using a shared Census fact rather than a shared Census (family) fact. And I've made no decisions about Family Residence, but I'll probably do the same for it.
Thanks,
Jackie
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by tatewise »

I have updated the plugin to cope with rich text and metafields, and add another feature or two.
Please try the attached Change Any Fact Tag plugin Version 3.2.1 Date 14 May 2021.

It should not now produce the _FIELD and _FMT warnings you were getting with Version 3.2.

In a Project just imported from another product, any event imported with a value can create an _UNCAT UDF to hold that value.
If the plugin is used to convert such events to attributes, their _UNCAT value is now automatically moved to the attribute value.

The _FIELD Metafield option for Source records, and the _PCIT Prepared Citation option for Header records were both missing and are now fixed.
Last edited by tatewise on 24 Aug 2021 15:59, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Attachment deleted as later version is in the Plugin Store.
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Re: Problem with Change Any Fact plugin

Post by BakerJL75 »

Thanks! I ran it against my data and it worked perfectly. Although you've convinced me to use Census and not a separate Census (Individual) fact.
Thanks,
Jackie
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