* Add GRO Source plugin

[gsward]

I seem to have hit a little problem. When you enter a partial Registration District it presents a pop-up list of matches to select from. However, when you select the one you want to use it still uses the text you have entered in the first dialog. I am sure we would have noticed if this not working before.

Also slightly puzzled as the version I am using (last one attached here) is 1.3.3 but the plugin header description refers to version 1.4.

Graham

[tatewise]

The version is formally defined by the @Version: 1.3.3 line in the header.
The later later line referring to 1.4 in the @Description is in preparation for formal publishing after the 1.3.n prototypes have been tested.

Yes, there is a long-standing bug where if you choose the first Place name after Use Place Above then it is ignored, but any Place names further down the list are actioned correctly.

That bug is fixed in the attached Version 1.3.4 Date 29 Dec 2020.

[David Potter]

Hi Mike
The Plug-In description states it will optionally create the Event. I assume this is meaning it will optionally create the Birth Fact by example. How do you do that? I can't seem to get it to do that in FH7.

How do I force the Plug-In to create a new Fact such as a Birth with a date such as Q4 1859?

Attached is a screen shot of how I remember this working in FH6

Thank You
David

[tatewise]

This plugin started life back in Feb 2019 with Jane as the author but over the months it has migrated to me but never published in the Plugin Store, where there is Add GRO Event to an Individual (no source) and Add a General Record Office Source and optionally Event neither of which have been updated for FH V7.
The former one was mentioned last Feb in this thread but I don't recall ever seeing the latter one.

I guess it would make sense to roll them all up into one plugin, which was discussed last Feb but never happened.

It is not top of my list of tasks at the moment, but maybe later in the new year, or as has been suggested elsewhere perhaps a few new authors need to take an interest.

[David Potter]

I see Mike, no problem at all. I'll hold back and see what comes along when you have more time. Wish I could help more.

David

[tatewise]

I am still dealing with a backlog of issues with existing published Plugins.
This GRO Source development is still on my checklist but if anybody else wants to take it on they are welcome.

[gsward]

I've still continued to use this Add GRO Source plugin (1.3.4). On later death entries in the index it gives the actual date of birth as informed at the time of registration. Can this field be added to the plugin to create a corresponding birth fact in addition to the age field?

Thanks,

Graham

[Normie]

I've still continued to use this Add GRO Source plugin (1.3.4). On later death entries in the index it gives the actual date of birth as informed at the time of registration. Can this field be added to the plugin to create a corresponding birth fact in addition to the age field?

Thanks,

Graham

Graham

I have developed a plugin to replicate (simplify) this process, but generate the same citation. My version does allow the actual birth date and age to be created. An example is:

Citation.png (31.55 KiB) Viewed 2337 times

If you think this might help, I will provide more details and copy the plugin.

Norman

[fhtess65]

I quite agree - it's one of the reasons I changed to FH. Other software users merely moan about what the software doesn't do/what it does wrong, while with FH, super-users who are good at programming come up with solutions, share those solutions freely, and, most important of all, cheerfully help the less techy-inclined to apply them. This group is the cherry on top of a great software package.

This is what I like about FH, I actually struggle to think of many (any?) software products that are so well supported.

Thanks

Graham

[Normie]

Graham
I suspect that this plugin is no longer supported and has been effectively replaced by Civil Registration Index in version 7 of Family Historian.
Before you can use this plugin, you need to import (at least) the Civil Registration Index source template from the Essentials Collection (see Sources and Citations in Version 7 (for Upgraders) - https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/worki ... version-7/)

The same is true for my version of their plugin; CRD(UK) Death. Note the plugin ONLY works for the current induvial selected.
Before it can be used, a source record using the "Civil Registration Index" template from the Essentials collection must be created using the create source template/Prepare citation from the source drop down.
The source must contain the type "Death' and the Region. Other details from the top half of the citation window should be completed, as this source will be used for ALL subsequent Death Citations.
At this point no need to do anything more with the citation window, as the source record will now be created.
The first time you use this plug in, you will need to identify the appropriate source record.
To do this first, select the region and then press the "source" button of the bottom of the screen.
This will list matching source records for the template and region. Select the one to use (may only be one).
When you save a Death registration, the current region and template is remembered for future use, as is the assessment rating.
For the actual citation,
you can overtype the name for the citation, but the name will NOT be changed.
If there is a Death date already, this will be shown. You can choose to change this
but it will only be updated if the "Update Death Date" is checked.
Similarly, if there is a Death Place already, this will be shown as the Registration District. You can choose to change this, but it will only be updated if the "Update Death Place" is checked.
The Registration District can be type in manually or selected from the list.
By pressing the "Save" button, the Death date and place is updated, if requested, and the citation saved.
I attach the source for this plugin.

CRD(UK) Death.fh_lua

(21.85 KiB) Downloaded 43 times

I have developed similar versions for birth and marriage indexes.
Please consider this a beta test version.

Hope this makes sense and helps

Norman

[gsward]

A bit of a mystery. I am a long-term user of FH, but I don't seem to be able to set up the Record Civil Registration Data (UK) plugin. The Plugin Store doesn't seem to have instructions for this plugin on its download page or in the plugin itself.

Here is what I have done. I have created three sources using the Essentials template for Civil Registration Index. I have selected Type, Region and Repository in each of the Sources.

When I run the plugin for having selected an individual it responds with:

plugin.png (10.33 KiB) Viewed 2224 times

I would not expect to enter the Name and Date until the plugin runs i.e. from the GRO record.
What am I missing? Or does this plugin not work like the original Add GRO Source plugin?

Could someone maybe provide some screenshots of the setup.

Thanks.

[ColeValleyGirl]

No, the DEA you’re talking about is not related to the other plugin at all. You complete the Prepared Citation with the minumum details as requested by the DEA. The plugin then prompts for any additional info needed to create the facts and Text from Source.

[gsward]

You complete the Prepared Citation with the minumum details as requested by the DEA. The plugin then prompts for any additional info needed to create the facts and Text from Source.

The workflow for this is really not clear. So for example, I create
1. A death fact for an individual
2. Add a citation using my 'group' source adding the individual's name (again) and the event date
3. The run the plugin with either the fact or source selected and I get the same prompt asking for the Region, Type, Name and Date again.

[ColeValleyGirl]

Workflow is

1. Create Prepared Citation
2. Run DEA.
3. The DEA creates the Death fact and a new individual if appropriate.

So you only enter each piece of information once.

The help file has more information on source driven data entry, which this is, and the knowledge base also covers it in articles about Sources and Citations for new users or upgraders.

[gsward]

I think the first issue is maybe how the sources link to the Plugin. There does not appear to be a prompt or any settings.

[ColeValleyGirl]

When you prepare a citation and then run the DEA using the button at the bottom of the prepared citation window the DEA can access all the information in the prepared citation. You don't need to make any other link.

[gsward]

This feels like I am entering some of the data twice like the person's name and fact date. Then it does not provide me with a lookup for the places, yes it does find them when you start to type, but that feels a little cumbersome.

[Normie]

Graham

I agree, I found it confusing and why I have created my own plugin to perform the same task.

I created another discussion on this forum; viewtopic.php?f=42&t=21271 in which Mike Tate explained how the Civil Registration Index Plugin is designed to work.

If I can help, please let me know.

Norman

[gsward]

Thanks Norman. I've just tried your plugin and it works how I expected.

The link to Mike's post is helpful, at least it explains how the other plugin is intended to work, but the result is not what I am was looking for and really it's not very efficient.

Thanks

Graham

[Normie]

Graham

If you find my plugin useful for deaths, I have corresponding versions for birth and marriage.

Just ask and I'll upload them.

Regards

Norman

[gsward]

If you find my plugin useful for deaths, I have corresponding versions for birth and marriage.

Just ask and I'll upload them.

Yes, please.

Thank you.

[Normie]

Graham

Birth and marriage versions attached.

CRD(UK) Marriages.fh_lua

(22.78 KiB) Downloaded 39 times

CRD(UK) Birth.fh_lua

(20.43 KiB) Downloaded 40 times

Let me know if you have any issues or questions.

Regards

Norman

[ColeValleyGirl]

Re efficiency, which steps are you finding inefficient? It would be helpful to understand this for the DEAs I'm working on now.

Step 1: Prepare a citation to the appropriate Civil Registration Index source:

Prepared Citation.jpg (112.32 KiB) Viewed 2112 times

Note: This is where you specify the name as recorded in the index and date , as well as the Registration District and Reference. Note: the Registration District is defined in the Source Template as Text, rather than a Place, so there is no lookup for it when creating the source.

Step 2: Run the "Record Civil Registration Data (UK) Data Entry Assistant". It will prompt for the extra information it needs to create facts and individuals:

DEA prompting for extar information.jpg (50.43 KiB) Viewed 2112 times

Note: The name is pre-filled for you (taken from the prepared citation) and you cannot change it. You do, however, have to specify which individual record the register entry applies to -- either an existing record (which defaults to the individual currently selected in your project) or a new record. If you select a new record, the Individual will be created (with a sex that you supply when prompted). You can enter the mother's maiden name if known, and have the option to cite the source for the Individual record as well as for any facts created.

Step 3: For new individuals, or individuals who don't currently have a birth fact, you'll be prompted for specific details of the birth fact, pre-filled with data taken from the citation (the date, and the registration district as a proxy for place). You'll want to either:

• expand the place to match your preferences for place formatting (once you start typing, it will autocomplete, which is faster than scrolling through from a list of what might be several hundred places, and the same speed as moving through such a dropdown list by typing; shorter place lists might be better served by a dropdown).
• remove the place if you take the stance that a registration district is not a place in your terminology.

New birth.jpg (38.63 KiB) Viewed 2112 times

For individuals who already have a birth fact recorded, you can choose what to do: Modify the existing fact, add another birth fact, or just cite the GRO source for the existing birth fact.

Handling the birth fact.jpg (74.01 KiB) Viewed 2112 times

Note: you can decide not to have the DEA create/update the birth fact for you at all if you prefer, although I'm not sure why you'd run the DEA if you didn't want it to do this!

The DEA then:

• Creates the Text from Source based on the data you've provided.
• creates the individual (If necessary)
• adds or updates a birth fact (if not skipped)
• displays a results summary

tfs.jpg (36.9 KiB) Viewed 2112 times

Results.jpg (58.13 KiB) Viewed 2112 times

[Normie]

Re efficiency, which steps are you finding inefficient? It would be helpful to understand this for the DEAs I'm working on now.

Helen
I am sure that Graham can explain what he found to be inefficient, as I wrote a replacement plugin to achieve the same aims, I'll try to explain why here.

Initially I had a few issues using the plugin, resulting in multiple sources being created, rather than one per index. Then I came across the issue of identifying the correct source record each time I wanted to add a new citation. Thirdly, I found I was repeating the same information on multiple screens.

My background was in software development integrating with large computer systems, to simplify the user interface; I tried that approach here. My plugin has a single form:

Entry Form.png (53.84 KiB) Viewed 2095 times

It remembers the source record by saving its ID in an ini file. When you type in the data on the citation part of the form, it creates a new citation. On saving, you have the choice of what data to update, and the citation is copied against each of those events/facts. The 'text from source' is that entered on the form - which can differ from the facts.

I believe the citation it creates is, as near as, the same as you achieve from your plugin.

I accept that it doesn't create new records, but it essentially bypasses the 'prepare citation' step and only involves a single form. It also has the limitation of being applied to the current individual.

I recognise that my approach cuts across the principals of DEA, achieving that same aims in a different manner.

I think it may help if the plugin had the comprehensive help on the plugin store that you have posted here.

Norman

[ColeValleyGirl]

Norman, thanks for that.

Initially I had a few issues using the plugin, resulting in multiple sources being created, rather than one per index

As the DEA doesn't create any sources, I suspect what happened was that you had problems understanding the concept of the Prepared Citation, and prepared a citation to a new source every time rather than preparing a citation to an existing source. The FH documentation isn't brilliant on the subject of prepared citations, but it does say:

Example 2: Information from the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, found online
This time you found some information online in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index. You already have a Source record for this Birth Index. You created it using the source template in the Essentials collection, called "Civil Registration Index". Should you re-use it, or create a new Source record using the same source template? The description for the Civil Registration Index says the following:

"One source record per index (e.g. Birth Index, Marriage Index, Death Index or Divorce Index) for any region of the world. Add your country to the region list, if not already there."

That's to say, if you already have a Source record for a given index, don't create another one. So in this case, you should click on Prepare Citation to Existing Source... and select the existing Source record for the Birth Index.

From what you're saying, you've created a standard plugin, bypassing the Prepared Citation record, but there's nothing 'wrong' with that: it does what you (and others) need. Yet another approach exists at Some new Data Entry Assistant plugins for testing (V7) (18293), which has a couple of DEAs that will accept any prepared citation as a source of information about a birth, and just use the information you provide from the source to create individuals, families and facts. There are as many ways to do the job as there are programmers!

I'm not sure I've got the time to do the detailed documentation for all the existing DEAs. I'd rather concentrate on the new one that I'm writing!