* Importing and TITLE

Importing from another genealogy program? This is the place to ask. Questions about Exporting should go in the Exporting sub-forum of the General Usage forum.
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Woodg
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Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Hi everyone,

After lurking on these forums for some time I've now decided to bite the bullet and buy Family Historian to replace my existing product, Relatively Yours, which is no longer supported.

My plan over the next few weeks is to learn how to use Family Historian based on documents from Calico Pie and the numerous informed articles on the Knowledge Base. To do this I'll be using the Family Historian sample project.

However, after reading the Importing articles on the Knowledge Base, I have tried a test import from Relatively Yours using its export to PAF GEDCOM file and I would like some assistance with an issue I have found.

In Relatively Yours the Title field was used for Mr, Mrs etc and not Lord Grantham or the like. During the import process this field is imported as a Title rather than a Name Prefix. Is there anyway in Family Historian to move data from the Title field to Name Prefix or is it better to fix this via editing the GEDCOM before importing?

Glenn
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by tatewise »

Hi Glenn,
To be honest, it is not usual to record Mr and Mrs at all.
The Sex field makes it clear whether the person is Male or Female (or Unknown).
For women, until they are married, their title is not Mrs anyway.
So my advice would be to simply delete all the Title facts.
That can be done in the GEDCOM file if you like or there is a Plugin that can do it in bulk in FH.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Woodg
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Hi All,

I'm back to trying to import from Relatively Yours 3.

I've manually cleaned up the Title records in RY3. They were Titles on Contact Lists. I had less than a dozen so removed them in RY3. So one task down. RY3 allows you to check a box when you know a person is deceased but know no other details. These come across as a "DECEASED" date phrase. The Search and Replace plugin soon fixed that issue.

The Import via a GEDCOM exported for PAF has mostly worked well. There are some issues where RY3 hasn't exported properly (e.g. Cremations are exported with a BURI tag instead of CREM but there are so few I will adjust them manually), but otherwise most data seems to have come across.

I do have some questions, though:

1. In the import Exception report I have 120 records that say "EXCLUDED: link to non-existent Place record (0)". It turns out that the GEDCOM has exactly 120 PLAC tags without any data/places. This occurs when I have an event without a location. I'm assuming that I can safely ignore these?

2. I have over two thousand Info Only warnings about RIN tags. My understanding is that RIN tags are used to link to external systems. But RY3 seems to use some for internal links. For example:

1 BIRT
2 DATE 3 JAN 1856
2 PLAC Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
2 RIN 1
2 _PPT @I1@
3 TYPE 0 event owner
3 _NSQ 0


The bold tags appear to relate to the Participants of an event, which appears to correspond to Witnesses in FH. RY3 automatically adds the principal participant(s) to the event (i.e person for birth, death, husband and wife for marriage, etc). The _PPT tag is the Record ID of the participant, the TYPE is the "role" where TYPE 0 is the principal owner and a TYPE 1 is the principal co-owner (i.e. wife for a marriage event), TYPE 2 is an observer (someone with a record in RY3) and TYPE 4 is an outsider (allows free text for the name instead of linking to a RY3 name record). It seems that "Witness" in FH relates only to people other than the principal(s). If my assumption is correct then I should be able to ignore these extra RIN tags. I've never used the "participants" feature of RY3 (other than the automatically created principal owner and principal co-owner) so I should be able to delete them from FH.

Thanks for any feedback/hints/etc.

Glenn
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by tatewise »

It sounds as if you are really getting to grips with the RY3 migration.
  1. I think you are saying those 120 entries are 2 PLAC without any subsequent placename. Yes, they can be ignored.
  2. I'm not sure the RIN number is anything to do with _PPT because they have the same level digit.
    Anyway, if you have no need to retain the RIN it can be deleted.
    I think you are saying TYPE 0 & TYPE 1 are automatically created and TYPE 2 & TYPE 4 are never created.
    If so, then all those data items can be deleted.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Woodg
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the response. Yes the PLAC entries have no place names. The RY3 GEDCOM export creates a PLAC for any event, even if no place is specified for that event.

And yes, the TYPE 0 and TYPE 1 are auto created in RY3. The TYPE 2 and TYPE 4 are manually entered and I've never used them (other than to test my theory on how they are used). So nothing to worry about there.

Another question, if I may. In RY3 every citation allows the recording of the person who researched the citation, and the date it was done, and it defaults to my name and the system date. This has come into FH as a UDF. There doesn't appear to be a spot in FH for such data. Almost 40 years in IT has taught me not to lose data as you never know when it might be needed, however I'm OK with deleting this data if there is nowhere for it, particularly considering I'm the "researcher" in every record!

Thanks,

Glenn

P.S. I may have some questions on adoptions and de-facto relationships as the FH import log is giving me warnings on them. but that is for another day.

Glenn
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by tatewise »

Yes, if you are always the researcher then it is hardly worth preserving.
In FH it could be recorded in a Source Citation Note, or by using the new Source Templates, metafields could be defined to hold that sort of information.
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Woodg
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Thanks Mike. I think I'll live without this data. My understanding of Source Templates is limited at present but I think that dates have to be manually entered (in RY3 it defaulted to the current date) and I'm likely to find manual entry a pain for limited gain.

Thanks,

Glenn
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Woodg
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Hi All,

Continuing on my journey from Relatively Yours 3 to FH, I think I have an issue with Divorces.

The GEDCOM from RY3 has:

1 DIV
2 DATE 1925
2 PLAC Anytown, New South Wales, Australia


in the FAMily structure and a Divorce fact is created in FH and a correctly worded sentence is displayed, however the Status field on the Main Tab of the Property Box is empty. Shouldn't this be set to Divorced?

Is this an error with the GEDCOM import (and therefore I should notify CP)? Or have misunderstood something?

Thanks,

Glenn
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by tatewise »

Hi Glenn,
That imported Divorce event is perfectly OK and is standard GEDCOM.

The FH Status: Divorced is only for when you know they are Divorced but have no Divorce event Date or Place details.
It is a non-standard GEDCOM extension invented by FH so will not be supported by any other products.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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LornaCraig
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by LornaCraig »

tatewise wrote: 15 Aug 2022 09:36 The FH Status: Divorced is only for when you know they are Divorced but have no Divorce event Date or Place details.
I think that is a bit misleading. If you know the couple were divorced but have no date or place details you can simply create a divorce fact and leave those details blank. The fact that they were divorced will then appear in reports.

The Status field works independently and serves a different purpose. If you set the status to Divorced then in diagrams a diagonal line appears across the small double lines linking the couple, showing that they were divorced. Similarly if you set the status to Unmarried Couple or Never Married or Unknown the double linking lines become dotted. But the effect in diagrams is probably only noticeable if you know what to look for, so you may feel it's not worth bothering.
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by tatewise »

Whoops, sorry, forgot about the way the Status: affects Diagram partnership connecting lines. :oops:
However, it will never get set by an import from another product.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Woodg
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Thank you Lorna and Mike.

Your information helps me with another issue - de facto relationships. The FH GEDCOM import Exception List gives warnings about lines 1 TYPE d. When checking, I found these to all be FAM records where the couple were not/never married.

The RY3 exported GEDCOM has de-facto relationships as:

0 @F360@ FAM
1 TYPE d
1 HUSB @I713@
1 WIFE @I1309@
1 MARR


and is imported as a regular spouse record.

I don't have many of them so I should be able to improve them by setting the Status to Unmarried Couple.

Thanks for your help on the import. Next will be adoptions. There is something funny going on with adoptions but I need to do more investigation.

Thanks,

Glenn
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Woodg
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Hi All,

I have another issue with my RY3 to FH GEDCOM, this time with Adoptions. The problem is that I don't seem to have a problem! The Import Log is showing as follows:

Record Type=Family. Gedcom Id=F135. Record Number=129.
l.108768 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 ADOP "
l.108770 - INFO ONLY: Loaded uncategorised data (non-GEDCOM): "2 ADOP "


But the result in FH looks correct, that is the Relationship of the child to the parent is "a" on the Focus Window, and on the All tab of the Property Window I see Parents Family - Relationship - Adopted.

The GEDCOM shows the FAM record as:

0 @F135@ FAM
1 HUSB @I524@
1 WIFE @I495@
1 CHIL @I674@
2 ADOP
1 CHIL @I675@
2 ADOP
1 CHIL @I676@
1 NCHI 3
1 MARR
2 DATE 24 MAY 1969
2 PLAC Anytown, New South Wales, Australia


and the GEDCOM FAMC record is:

FAMC @F135@
2 PEDI adopted


My (basic) reading of the GEDCOM specs says that the ADOP tag should not be in the FAM structure. To me, it looks as if the RY3 GEDCOM export is incorrect.

To check my understanding I created a fresh, new Project in FH and entered just an adopted child and the parents, then did a GEDCOM export from FH and it has a FAMC record with PEDI Adopted and no ADOP tags anywhere else.

Does anyone agree (or disagree) with my assumption that the Import warning from FH is valid, but only because the RY3 GEDCOM is superfluous ADOP tags?

Thanks,

Glenn
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by tatewise »

Yes, your analysis is perfect.
RY3 is working to a very old GEDCOM standard where the ADOPtion event was subsidiary to the FAM.CHIL item.
Does RY3 have any options to choose which GEDCOM standard is used for export?

In GEDCOM 5.5.1, the ADOPtion event is a standard INDIvidual event.

For each FAM.CHIL.ADOP item you might want to create an INDI.ADOP event for that child with Date and Place details.
Then those 2 ADOP UDF (Unrecognised Data Field) can be bulk deleted.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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Re: Importing and TITLE

Post by Woodg »

Thanks for the confirmation Mike. Unfortunately RY3 only has a Version 5.5 GEDCOM export option.

I'll have a look at your suggestion to add an INDI.ADOP record however I don't have date and place data. I only know they are adopted. They fact I only have 4 of them and they are children of distant cousins and not ancestors makes me think I might just leave them as is (as much as I don't like having missing data).

Thanks,

Glenn
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