Page 1 of 1

Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 05 Feb 2019 23:50
by BillH
I have a cousin who was born in Norway in 1890 named Ingvald Marius Iversen. His last name is sometimes listed as Iverson. He was a seaman. According to what I've been able to find in the Norway records, he died on June 27. It appears that this would have been in 1912 although it might have been 1911. He died in Cardiff, Wales as a result of an accident. One source I've found listed this as accidental drowning. The sources I've been able to find are not very conclusive. I was hoping that there might be something in the Welsh records or newspapers of the time that might shed some light on what actually happened and the actual date.

I've checked FreeBMD and GRO, but have not been able to find anything. I was hoping that someone in FHUG might have access to some records or newspapers that might help clear up the situation.

Thanks!
Bill

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 10:43
by mjashby
Bill,

You could try: https://newspapers.library.wales

Mervyn

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 11:30
by tatewise
I have run the free GRO Death Index search, and searched FindMyPast and Ancestry, but cannot find any records that even have a loose connection to that name and dates.
If he really did die in Wales about 1911 then there should be a GRO Death record.
I searched the GRO Death Index from 1900 to 1920 for entire UK looking for either Iversen or Iverson, and although there are a few surname matches, nothing comes close to a forename and age match.

What are the sources you have found?

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 17:31
by BillH
Mike,

A distant cousin told me that he was a sailor and that he died young unmarried. That was all they knew.

In the 1910 census he is listed as living with his mother in Bergen. His occupation is given as "Sailor".

His death was recorded in the Domkirken Parish Register in Bergen, Norway. The date is given as 27 June 1912. There is no burial registration number or date given which is unusual. This means he was not buried in the parish. In the cause of death field it states "accident, drowning". In the remarks it says "Notified by the Consulate General in London". I am assuming this is the Norwegian Consulate General.

I was told by someone on the Norway Rootsweb Mailing List that there was a death notice in the Bergens Tidende (Bergen newspaper) that says "he passed away in an accident in Bay Roads, Cardiff". Unfortunately the person that told me this did not give me any information about the date the notice appeared or any transcription of the notice. I have tried to contact her via the list, but have not received a reply.

That is all I have so far.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 17:50
by BillH
Mervyn,

Thanks for the link.

I searched for him by name. I looked for any drowning deaths reported around June 27, 1912. I looked for any deaths in Cardiff around that time. Unfortunately, I couldn't find him anywhere.

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 18:26
by tatewise
The nearest record I can find on FindMyPast is:
Iversen, Charles Born:1891 Died:1911 'British Armed Forces And Overseas Deaths And Burials' Calburga, At Sea
The details say:
Age: 20
Birthplace: Larvig, Norway
Cause: Fell from topsail yard to deck
Date: 20 June 1911
Place: At sea
Ship: Calburga
Official Number: 90478
Port of Registry: Maitland, Nova Scotia

There is no record of a Charles Iversen (or anything similar) in the GRO Death Index around 1911 with an Age of about 20.
So it seems his Death was not registered in the UK.

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 18:42
by BillH
Mike,

Thanks for searching. I do not think this is him. Ingvald was born in Bergen, Norway, would have been 21 in 1911, and definitely was not named Charles.

I was wondering if there is any record anywhere in the UK of ship crew lists that might include him? I am not sure if he was on a Norwegian flagged ship or a UK flagged ship.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 19:30
by BillH
I just found who I think may be the right person on a crew list document on Ancestry.com.

The collection on Ancestry is called "New South Wales, Australia, Registers of Seamen, 1859-1936". The document is "Registers of Discharged Seamen, 1903-1907".

There is an entry for I. Iverson who was discharged from the ship Aeon on Dec 14, 1905. The ship was registered in London and it listed I. Iverson's birth place as Bergen.

If this is the right person, he would have been 15. As it happens, his mother was a widow living in Bergen with several of her children. I am guessing that it would not have been unusual for the eldest son to be working at the age of 15 back in 1905 in these circumstances.

I looked and there is a Cardiff in New South Wales so maybe that is where he died rather than in Cardiff, Wales. Since the ship was registered in London, I would not be surprised if the notification to the family came from the Consulate General in London.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 19:33
by ColeValleyGirl
Try https://trove.nla.gov.au/ for Australian newspaper reports?

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 19:40
by tatewise
Bill, I can understand the connections you are making, but how does that fit with him being at home in Bergen in 1910 Census?
Are you thinking he sailed back home between 1905 and 1910 and then returned to NSW Australia later?

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 20:15
by mjashby
Just in case it becomes of interest, the death Mike found for Charles Iverson is recorded in The GRO "Deaths Registered at Sea" index for 1911. Entry (provides much less detail than the record on FMP):

Iverson, Charles; Age: 20, Vessel; Calburga, Page: 139

Various entries on the internet describe the Calburga as a Canadian Barque used to transport timber from Canada to various countries including 'Great Britain'. The National Archives website states that the Ship's Logbooks 1892-1911 are held by Pembrokeshire Archives and Local Studies. Also see entry here: http://www.dive-pembrokeshire.com/wreck.html Calburga sunk in 1915.

Mervyn

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 22:17
by AnneEast
Cardiff Roads suggests to me that he was drowned at sea and not 'in Cardiff'. There may or may not be a death registered at sea but it seems unlikely to be in the GRO indexes as he was a foriegn national.
Anne

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 22:57
by BillH
Helen,

Thanks for the link. I looked around and couldn't find anything for Ingvald. I did see that there was a sailor named I. Iverson that drowned off New Zealand in 1906. This could not have been Ingvald as he died in 1912. The I. Iverson that drowned in 1906 might have been the one that was in the 1905 register. It is possible (maybe probable) that Ingvald is not the one in the 1905 register. I wanted it to be him so I tried to make the facts fit. :D

Oh well, I'll keep the 1905 register information in case it ends up really being him. I may never be able to find out what happened to Ingvald.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 23:06
by BillH
tatewise wrote:... how does that fit with him being at home in Bergen in 1910 Census? Are you thinking he sailed back home between 1905 and 1910 and then returned to NSW Australia later?

Mike,

I found another I. Iverson who drowned off New Zealand in 1906. He may have been the person in the 1905 register, not my Ingvald.

I wasn't sure how the census in Norway would work. I was thinking he was a sailor who went to sea months at a time, but still lived in Bergen so he would be listed in the Norway census in 1910. I don't know if he would have actually had to have been at home on census enumeration day to be listed. I've found US solders who were away at war on census enumeration day but were still listed in the census because they still lived at home.

I figured he probably sailed all over and could have been in NSW more than once and back to Norway in between. Now though I'm thinking the guy in the 1905 registration may not have been him and I really have no idea where he died... Cardiff, NSW? Cardiff, Wales? A ship at sea that stayed in port at one of the Cardiff's? Somewhere else?

Who knows. Thanks for searching around for me!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 23:10
by BillH
AnneEast wrote:Cardiff Roads suggests to me that he was drowned at sea and not 'in Cardiff'. There may or may not be a death registered at sea but it seems unlikely to be in the GRO indexes as he was a foriegn national.
Anne

Anne,

Thanks for the reply. The death notice in the Bergen paper said "Bay Roads, Cardiff", not "Cardiff Roads". I do agree though that he could very well have drowned at sea and since the ship may have departed from Cardiff or even "home ported" in Cardiff, and that may have been what was reported back to the parish or family in Norway.

Now if I just knew which Cardiff (Wales or NSW) I might be able to find out more, but so far I've struck out in the newspapers for both Cardiff's.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 23:15
by BillH
Mervyn,

I'll keep the info on Charles Iverson just in case, but I don't think it is Ingvald. He has the wrong place of birth.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 23:29
by DonF
Given that the Cardiff area in NSW is about 10km inland (which would seem to eliminate drowning) and there is no death entry for a matching Iverson/Iversen in the NSW Death registers, I think you can forget any Australian connection.

Don,

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 06 Feb 2019 23:38
by BillH
Don,

I saw that, but convinced myself that maybe in the early 1900's ships could have gone into Lake Macquarie which is connected to the ocean. If they went up to the north end of the lake they would only be a couple km from Cardiff. I thought maybe that is where he drowned.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. :D

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 07 Feb 2019 00:37
by themoudie
Aye Bill,

Have you had a trawl here? National_Archives_of_Norway

This is the link for the Parish Records for Bergen County, Norway. Bergen_County, _Norway, _Parish _records

I have made searches on the following sites using "Iversen", "Iverson", "Ivorsen" and "Ivorson", to no avail. But I post the links here as you may choose to make your own searches.

The UK National Archives hold 'Seamans Records' and I had hoped to find something in there, but no luck for me, you may care to make your own search. You should note that these records are archived with the prefix 'BT' for Board of Trade, who are the UK Government Department that created these shipping/seamen records. UK_National_Archives

This is the online UK Newspaper archive and is but a part of the complete UK newspaper collection held by the British Museum. If you have no success searching the online records you could try requesting a search of the paper archive. British_Newspaper_Archive

I hope this helps and that you can find more information.

My regards, Bill

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 07 Feb 2019 01:11
by BillH
Bill,

I have looked at the National Archives of Norway. That is where I found Ingvald's birth, confirmation, and death records as well as the census records. I had not looked at the British National Archives and British Newspaper sites you mentioned. I poked around on both of those sites just now and don't find anything either.

Oh well... I'll keep hunting.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 07 Feb 2019 11:46
by tatewise
I suspect you already found this transcript of the Church book from Korskirken parish 1910-1956 (1301M2):
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000001129794
(There is a Norwegian/English switch top right between Login and Menu.)
Thought it might be a useful reference to supplement the image at:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/43328/37
By using the Google Norwegian to English translator I confirmed everything you stated earlier.
e.g.
Matros = Sailor
Ulykkes felfali drukning = Accidental drowning
Anmeldt av Generalkonsulatet i London = Reviewed by the Consulate General of London

I also found your dialogue on Rootsweb.

I tried searching FamilySearch.org but no luck.

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 07 Feb 2019 11:55
by brianlummis
Not sure if this will be helpful but I believe that Lloyds Register may record deaths of seamen as well as ships lost. Unfortunately I don't have access to their records although I did find at https://hec.lrfoundation.org.uk/archive-library/casualty-returns that the Norwegian ship Thalatta was lost on 10th June 1912 and I had noted from previous trawls looking for Iverson that the Captain of that ship was called Iverson - but I guess that the name may be quite common in Norway. However a bit of a coincidence in view of the timing!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 07 Feb 2019 16:09
by BillH
Mike,

Yes, I had seen both the transcript and the image before. That is where my search began.

Thanks again for searching!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 07 Feb 2019 16:18
by BillH
Brian,

Thanks for the reply. Hadn't thought of Lloyds Register. I will have to poke around and see if I can find anything.

Yes, Iversen is very common in Norway... kind of like Smith in the USA. All sons of anyone named Iver would have that name as well as any daughters if Iver lived in a large city like Bergen.

Thanks!

Re: Ingvald Marius Iversen

Posted: 09 Feb 2019 18:26
by BillH
I just want to thank everyone that helped me try to find out more about where Ingvald died. While we were unable to track him down in that regard, you did provide me with excellent sources of information which I have bookmarked and will no doubt use in the future. If I ever do find out what happened to Ingvald I'll post it here to let you know.

Thanks!