* 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Got general Family History research questions - this is the place
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Gowermick
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1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by Gowermick » 09 May 2018 05:00

For those of you not yet aware, the 1939 register is now available on Ancestry as well as Findmypast.
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Mark1834
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by Mark1834 » 09 May 2018 07:50

Looks like their own independent indexing. I picked one record at random (my father in north London), and the house number was recorded incorrectly! Usual caveat - take nothing on trust until you see the original document.

I also prefer the way FMP present the citation data and extra context, so this would still be my preferred route in provided my sub was still active.
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by davidm_uk » 09 May 2018 09:09

Yes, just picked up the announcment email from Ancestry before I saw this post. Whoopeee.....I have a sub for Ancestry but only payg for FMP, so had up until now only searched 1939 entries for direct ancestors. I can now look for all the others in my tree.

I wonder how long it takes for updates (particulary undoing redactions) to filter through to Ancestry's data. Anyone had any experience of this with FMP?
David Miller - researching Miller, Hare, Walker, Bright (mostly Herts, Beds, Dorset and London)

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by jimlad68 » 09 May 2018 09:42

Yes, I find the FMP transcription more useful (they are usually better at it than me!), but as with the census, the Ancestry search seems to get obscure name transcriptions better, whereas I can spend ages trying to find an FMP item, even when I know it is there! In consequence I often find in Ancestry, then view in FMP. Having both a luxury at present!
Jim Orrell - researching: see - but probably out of date https://wcbeta.rootsweb.com/trees/15314 ... 1&letter=A

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Mark1834
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by Mark1834 » 09 May 2018 10:12

My aunt died in 2015 and she is listed ok, but not yet my mother-in-law, who died early last year. However, another aunt who died some years ago in Australia is still redacted. Guess it’s only deaths the UK authorities know about that are opened.
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LornaCraig
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by LornaCraig » 09 May 2018 10:46

Mark1834 wrote:My aunt died in 2015 and she is listed ok
To quote from Ancestry's information: "Images have been redacted to protect the privacy of those still alive and we will be annually adding records for those with birth dates older than 100 years or if a record of the death has been reported to The National Archives."

Until the 1980s (I think) many deaths were recorded against the 1939 register but this stopped when the National Health Service changed its system. The records of many people who died after that are still redacted. So if your aunt died in 2015 and her record is not redacted either she was born before 1918 or someone has informed the National Archives of her death, possibly by reporting it through Findmypast and submitting a copy of the death certificate.
davidm_uk wrote:I wonder how long it takes for updates (particulary undoing redactions) to filter through to Ancestry's data. Anyone had any experience of this with FMP?
I have submitted copies of a couple of death certificates to Findmypast and the records were unlocked within a few weeks. The same records now show up in Ancestry, so this confirms that the information is getting passed to the National Archives.
Lorna

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by NigelBrown » 09 May 2018 10:48

And, according to the "Recently Added and Updated Collections" page on Ancestry, we can "Enjoy free access until Sunday 13th May. "
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by AdrianBruce » 09 May 2018 18:04

Ancestry say:
we will be annually adding records for those with birth dates older than 100 years or if a record of the death has been reported to The National Archives.
I think that this implies that Ancestry will only be updating on an annual basis. As they appear to have obtained the redacted images from TNA, this would imply a longer process to un-redact people, when compared to FMP as FMP will hold the original, clear images as part of their process for digitising the Register. FMP can therefore take a clear image, re-apply the remaining redactions and re-launch that page. The page with the revised redactions then has to make its way to Ancestry. Or at least, that's how I think it works.
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E Wilcock
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by E Wilcock » 10 May 2018 08:00

Thank you for the information.
However, is it certain that these records come from the National Archives?
You may observe that in the right hand column there are notes attached to some entries but cropped off, and in some cases women's postwar married names are entered.
I was asked by a researcher in USA to request an uncropped image of the entry for her grandmother and was told at the NA itself that these were not NA images. There is I believe a different link to which she could apply for further information and I passed this to her instead.

Unfortunately FMP have other WW2 records from the National Archives so those of us working on that period (from home) will still need 2 subscriptions.

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 10 May 2018 08:40

The register used to be held by the NHS Information Centre and information (but not images) could be accessed via an 'Information Request' to the 1939 Register Team at Smedley Hydro (same place as the GRO). If it's at Kew, it hasn't been there very long...

I put in an information request in 2011 shortly after they were forced to provide information if asked. In many ways it was more useful -- they cross-checked the individuals individually so to speak (I assume with GRO records but possibly with NHS records) -- I got information about my uncle by this means as he had died by 2011. However, the FMP images when they became available had him redacted and as I haven't got his death certificate I can't get it opened (I have a copy of his proven will, but apparently that isn't acceptable).

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by brianlummis » 10 May 2018 09:17

Slightly off topic but I guess we all have frustrations with the redacted entries. My parents are listed at the address I was born with three other entries that are redacted and I would love to know who they are. Both my brother and myself were born later and as far as I know there are no other siblings. I check every year in the hope that one of the redacted entries will be revealed under the 100 year rule and I fear that I may never find out the answer. If only they had left the names and redacted the rest of the information!

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AdrianBruce
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by AdrianBruce » 10 May 2018 12:15

brianlummis wrote:... My parents are listed at the address I was born with three other entries that are redacted and I would love to know who they are. ...
Possibly evacuees - my great-aunt and -uncle have one open entry for a child and one redaction bar - I think my Mum mentioned that her aunt had evacuees from Liverpool but there's no way to check that now...
Adrian

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AdrianBruce
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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by AdrianBruce » 10 May 2018 12:34

ColeValleyGirl wrote:The register used to be held by the NHS Information Centre and information (but not images) could be accessed via an 'Information Request' to the 1939 Register Team at Smedley Hydro (same place as the GRO). If it's at Kew, it hasn't been there very long...
...
As I understand it, the Register has been accessioned (?) by TNA in solely digital form, c.f. its description in Discovery.
Reference: RG 101
Description: This series comprises digitally scanned versions of the enumerator's transcript books for the national registration of the civilian population that took place on the evening of 29 September 1939
Quite where the originals are, I have no idea. So Kew has digital images and I suspect that FMP hold, on behalf of TNA, the full, unredacted images. I am guessing as well that the cropped right-hand appears on those full, unredacted images as I think that the marker indicating whether someone has been reported dead, is on the right.

So Kew possibly don't have the full unredacted images but those images exist at the direction of Kew.
Adrian

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by davidm_uk » 10 May 2018 13:14

I've now found a few people in the Ancestry images who don't appear in any shape or form in either the Ancestry or FMP indexes. The details in the images are not, to my mind, indecipherable, so I don't know why they have been missed.

I ended up finding the people in a local directory for 1939, noted their address, then manually searched through the images of the town to find that street name. In Ancestry some street names have been indexed (and thereby searchable) but many have been missed. Via the index I found many of the people living in my parents street, but not my parents, although their house number was indexed.

If anyone has an interest in Welwyn Garden City (Hertfordshire, England) there's some very useful stuff here: http://cashewnut.me.uk/WGCbooks/ (my only connection with that website is via my family's history, but I'm very grateful to the guy that has published it).
David Miller - researching Miller, Hare, Walker, Bright (mostly Herts, Beds, Dorset and London)

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by Mark1834 » 10 May 2018 13:16

According to the National Archives 1939 web page

“The 1939 Register is a digital-only record: the original register books have been retained by the Health and Social Care Information Centre, now named NHS Digital, and are not held at The National Archives.”

So probably in a basement in a Government building somewhere...
Mark Draper

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by brianlummis » 10 May 2018 22:35

AdrianBruce wrote:
Possibly evacuees - my great-aunt and -uncle have one open entry for a child and one redaction bar - I think my Mum mentioned that her aunt had evacuees from Liverpool but there's no way to check that now...
That thought had crossed my mind as their ages must be 22 or less. However the address is in the centre of Ipswich which suffered a lot of bomb damage in the war and was unlikely to have been considered a safe place for evacuees.

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Re: 1939 Register now available on Ancestry.

Post by LornaCraig » 10 May 2018 23:39

Ipswich .... was unlikely to have been considered a safe place for evacuees.
I think the initial aim was to get children out of the big cities, which were assumed to be prime targets for bombing. My parents both lived on the south coast (in different places) but had evacuees billeted with their families at the start of the war. Later they were moved again when it was realised that the south coast was itself vulnerable. So yes, there could well have been evacuees in Ipswich in September 1939.
Lorna

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