* 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

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rfj1001
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1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by rfj1001 »

There's an entry in the address field on the original of a return that has the information NR230 DEP 29-11-46. A rewrite on the next page has similar info with no date. Image is attached.

Googling came up with an answer that NR230 was a code for a name change by deed poll but her marriage in Q2 1947 shows she hadn't changed her name for marriage purposes and I couldn't find anything in the Gazette which I understand would show a name change by deed poll request

Can anyone throw any light on what it might mean. All I know around that date is Esme E C Ord (maiden name Esmee Elsie Christine Pierce) remarried to an Edward Nakhimoff in 1947

url of the original image is below

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?i ... 2f012%2f37


Look forward to any thoughts/info people might have
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mjashby
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by mjashby »

DEP was the Area Code for St. Albans, Hertfordshire. See: http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/19 ... -districts

It should, presumably, tie up with where the marriage took place/was registered.

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LornaCraig
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by LornaCraig »

I wonder if she had changed her name before they were married because they were already living as husband and wife? (Do you know whether her first husband had died, or did she have to wait for a divorce?). Perhaps later when they did marry she reverted to her previous name for the marriage record, because it would look odd if she was already called Nakhimoff when she married Mr Nakhimoff!

This page on the National Archives site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help ... s-of-name/
says that deed poll records from 1851 to 2003 can be searched in person at Kew, but not online. I am not sure whether the Gazette would contain anything.

I see that Esmee Nakhimoff married again in 1970, to Sidney M Fields.

By the way there are some references to an Edward Nakhimoff in the Gazette in 1937 in connection with bankruptcy proceeedings. As it is not a common name (in the UK) there might be a connection, but you may already be aware.
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by tatewise »

I don't know the answer, but this is what I have found.

The code DEP after NR230 is an Enumeration District which from FindMyPast http://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/19 ... -districts is
DEP Hertfordshire St Albans MB

So maybe it is some sort of cross-reference to an entry under Nakhimoff in the St Albans section of the register.

I now see that her Marriage to Edward was registered in St Albans in Q2 1947 so I guess that is the Name Change.

BTW: He appears to have married Olga Klein in Paddington in Q2 1934

But I don't see how the apparent date of 29.11.46 applies.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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mjashby
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by mjashby »

As she married in 1947 using her Maiden Name of Esme PIERCE rather than ORD, according to the GRO Index, and there is no secondary entry for Esme ORD in the Index, my best guess would be that she possibly reverted to using her Maiden Name in November 1946, which would not have been unusual if divorce was involved. Such a change would have been recorded in her Medical Records when it was reported, which could be a plausible explanation for the date. The name change would not have necessitated a change by Deed Poll as it was her birth name (matched her Birth Certificate) and there has never been a legal obligation/requirement in English law for a woman to use a 'married name'.

Of course this remains pure speculation, unless there is some evidence of divorce.

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LornaCraig
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by LornaCraig »

mjashby wrote:As she married in 1947 using her Maiden Name of Esme PIERCE rather than ORD, according to the GRO Index, and there is no secondary entry for Esme ORD in the Index
The marriage is indexed under both Esmee E. PIERCE and Esmee E. ORD.
And the index entry for Edward Nakhimoff shows the spouse's surname as 'ORD or PIERCE'.
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by Gowermick »

Just a thought, but as Nakhimoff is not exactly an english sounding name, could it have been 'anglicised', resulting in a name change?
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by margarita »

To me the top image reads NR235. Maybe there was a mistake made when the note was copied - which would have come first?
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LornaCraig
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by LornaCraig »

The National Archives at Kew have some correspondence arising from circular NR230.
See http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... 39&catln=6
Unfortunately it cannot be browsed online.

A further set of correspondence is still closed, due to be released in 2025.
See http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... r/C1925990

The fact that it generated official correspondence which had to be locked away for 75 years suggests it was politically sensitive, so perhaps it does relate to the anglicising of foreign names.

Esmee was called 'Nakhimoff' when she married again in 1970, but perhaps they tried to change the spelling, or it had once been different?
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by AdrianBruce »

Just my two pennorth....

The 11/1946 change referring to NR230 surely can't refer to a reversion to her maiden name of Pierce as that name doesn't appear anywhere in her two entries. I also believe that the date of 11/1946 is the date that the update was done, not the date of the real-life event triggering the update. Not that that helps.... But the ink and pen seems to suggest to me that the 11/1946 update refers to a change of name to Nakhimoff.

1947 - she marries using names Pierce and Ord - possibly Pierce is simply her father's name on the marriage. This would suggest that while she changed her id card in 11/1946 to Nakhimoff, she married under her previous "legal" name, as Lorna suggests.

Date ?? - her second entry is created - the original is lined through in purple(?) ball point(?) and the cross reference to the later page added. What I don't understand is why this new entry exists - it seems to be written out in its original form and immediately (because it's in the same purple ink of the forward cross reference) updated to include Nakhimoff.

Alternatively that second entry was created before the 11/1946 change - but why?????? What change would it show originally?

I would really like to know what else is on that 2nd page. I wonder if the redacted lines aren't persons at all but correspondence about (say) "This woman is consorting with an alien...."
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by rfj1001 »

Thanks to all for the thoughts/comments/suggestions/questions.

I’ll try to respond to them, if only to try to get things clearer in my own mind.

/Esmee Pierce/ had 3 marriages. Walter A Ord (1934); Edward Nakhimoff (1947) and Sidney Fields (1970). My current working assumption is that the first two marriages ended up in divorce as there are later records for each of the first two husbands. The continuation of the last marriage until death is proven via probate records.

An /Edward Nakhimoff/ had 2 marriages – to Olga Klein (1934) and Esme Pierce (1947) – no other BD info on Olga Klein/Nakhimoff has been found although there is Fam Search birth record of an Olga Kleine 10+ yrs before Edward’s calculated birth but no way of tying her into this tree.

To complicate matters further, there is a headstone of an Edward Leonid Nakhimoff (23 May 1908 - 15 Jan 1966 according to findagrave) in the Jewish Cemetery, Bushey whose wife was /Galia/ and a reference on the headstone to unnamed sons. The age of 55 carved on the headstone for Edward is probably an error for 2 reasons – Death record has age as 57 and calculation from those exact b and d dates also gives 57. There is no death record I’ve come across for Galia or a marriage record to Edward

I have found a birth record for just one child for the Edward and Esmee marriage. Given the headstone for Edward and Galia indicate more than one son that suggests there has to be 2 Edward Nakhimoff’s. Apart from a marriage record for Edward and Olga there is no relevant B or D info I could find to explore further

Other points about Edward Nakhimoff (x2?)

TNA has a Naturalisation Certificate for an Edward Nakhimoff, from Russia and resident in London, dated 27 April 1932, but not available online

He was a Film Director working out of Abbey Road and there are bankruptcy orders for him in the London Gazette.

Isn't this just one of the most enjoyable and frustrating things about genealogy – these puzzles – and its only Esmee’s first marriage that is really part of my tree – the Ord line, the rest is purely a desire to solve the puzzle :)

Regards to all.
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mjashby
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by mjashby »

If you have access to Ancestry then you can 'track' Edward Nakhimoff and Leonid Nakhimoff (born c 1880) his father?(, over quite a lengthy period of time (from the early 1930s) from Phone Books and Electoral Registers in the Kensington and Elstree Districts. The Electoral Rolls are clearly more useful, as they list other adults in the family by name or initial which does provide some correlation with the various wives' names. A general 'Google' Search also throws also shows up a few links including a listing in the London Gazette (7 Jun 1932) for both Leonid (a Company Director) and Edward (a Student) at the same address (Allen House, Allen Street, Kensington).

One mystery is that there are no Nakhimoff entries listed in the 1939 Register. They appear to be of Russian Jewish descent, but I don't know if Russian Jews were interned in the UK at the start of WWII, although German Jews were, so that might explain a temporary disappearance.

One more mystery:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... /C11729778
Reference: HO 334/128/1253
Description:
Naturalisation Certificate: Edward Nakhimoff. From Russia. Resident in London. Wife's name Sarah [Nakhimoff]. Home Office Reference: 613627. Certificate AZ1253 issued 27 April 1932.

So, was Edward married to Sarah before he came to the UK and prior to his marriage to Olga Klein, or were there really 2 Edward Nakhimoffs?

Happy hunting.

Mervyn
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rfj1001
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by rfj1001 »

Thanks Mervyn for the new info :)

I don't have an ancestry subscription at the moment (I had probably gleaned the site dry of any new info so have switched to fmp for the last couple of years).

I'll keep a note though of the info you found on ancestry and when I'm close to a library I'll nip in and have a look

Kind Regards,

Robin
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Re: 1939 Register Query "NR230 DEP"

Post by Gowermick »

rfj1001 wrote:Thanks Mervyn for the new info :)

I don't have an ancestry subscription at the moment (I had probably gleaned the site dry of any new info so have switched to fmp for the last couple of years).

I'll keep a note though of the info you found on ancestry and when I'm close to a library I'll nip in and have a look

Kind Regards,

Robin
Robin,
Whilst I understand your switch to FMP and the reasons, just remember that all sites change their record coverage so frequently nowadays, leaving it for two years may be a bit overcautious.

I too left Ancestry for FMP last year, but will returning shortly. Apart from the new records that may now be available on Ancestry, my research has moved on over the past year, so I will be returning to Ancestry once my FMP subscription expires. :)
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