* Can online services support FH research?

[RichardBtn]

Family Historian has been and continues to be my primary resource for my family history research for some time now. However, after a recent demo of Ancestry.co.uk, I'm wondering if it's worth investing in a subscription to that or other online genealogical services in order to get access to their rich links to records and data.

I'm wondering what other forum members do about this. Can a service like Ancestry or FindMyPast augment Family Historian in any way and would the somewhat, to my mind, excessive subscription schemes be worth the investment?

I have just upgraded from FH v4 to v6 and noted the enhanced internet services but I'm not quite sure how to use them or if they fulfil the same purpose of a subscription-based online service.

I'd really appreciate any help or advice the knowledgeable members of FHUG could offer on this subject. Many thanks.

[tatewise]

Family Historian never has and still does not provide any document research capabilities.
It is purely an advanced tool for recording your genealogical discoveries.

You won't get far beyond any documents in the possession of your family, without subscribing to online family history services, unless prepared to visit records offices all over the country or perhaps the world, depending on how far flung your ancestors happen to be.

See research:index|> Genealogy Research especially Useful Research Web Sites. Some web sites are free, but offer limited resources, and in any case BMD Certificates must be purchased.

Even the integrated Internet Hints from MyHeritage built into FH V6 requires a subscription to obtain most documents.

Similar to many users I suspect, I have subscribed to both Ancestry and FindMyPast from time to time, and find them essential to research more than a few generations back.

[RichardBtn]

Thanks, Mike. Is it normal to subscribe to Ancestry et al for short periods of time to get the information you need? If you cancel a subscription at any time is the data you accessed still available to you?

[tatewise]

There are often a number of different subscription options, and each website will explain them on their subscription pages.

Typically you can subscribe for a fixed period of time, such as 3 months or a year, and the longer the period the cheaper the rate per month. Also you can often subscribe for different collections, such as just the UK, or perhaps world wide. During the subscription period you can access as many documents within the chosen collections as you like.

In addition it is usually possible to buy credits that are used to access each document at a stated number of credits each.

Searching certain details and access to some documents may be free.

Once any details and documents have been downloaded to your PC you can keep them subject to certain copyright conditions.

[RichardBtn]

Thanks again, Mike. Sounds like this might just be the solution I need to some of the road blocks I've encountered in my research.

[Jane]

It's worth keeping an eye out for offers, so next week is WDYTYA and both Ancestry and FMP may have some good offers. Personally I have FMP at the moment as they have many of the parish records I need.

[brianlummis]

As it appears that you are in the UK you may well find that your local library has free access to Ancestry and/or Find My Past so you may be able to test drive them there. However you are unlikely to be able to download images so ultimately a subscription or pay per view will be your best option.

Brian

[jmurphy]

Here is my standard advice for anyone asking if it's worthwhile to subscribe to an online data provider: do as much as you can to learn how to use the website before you subscribe.

Many sites have how-to articles or videos that show you how the site works, or free email newsletters, or other resources available to everyone. Make use of these materials as much as you can before you decide to put down any money for a subscription.

Jessica Hopkins, one of the archivists at the US National Archives, talked about how to find your people in the records at the National Archives. You need to know three things. 1) a name 2) the date of the event that would have caused a record to be generated and 3) a place. She referred to this as a "three-legged stool". If you have all three bits of information, you have a stable surface to sit on -- if you only have one or two legs, not so much.

Armed with whatever knowledge you have, evaluate the holdings of the website to see if the site has any records for the time frame and geographic locations you need.

What you don't want to do is make the mistake like I did when I signed up for an Ancestry World subscription for the first time. I had heard that Ancestry had records about border crossings between Canada and the United States, and I wanted to see them, plus other Canadian records they might have. But I didn't take into account that the person I wanted to find was born around 1844, which is before Canadian confederation. All of the records I wanted to find didn't exist because no one kept them until decades later. Border crossings records started in 1895, Civil Registrations of Births started later, it's too early for ship arrivals with lists of passengers like the ones we're used to from the late 19th & early 20th century.

So before you spend any money, ask what it is that you want to find, and evaluate the site to see if they have any records. I wrote up an example of a preliminary evaluation here:

Catch 22: how do you know if a data provider's sub will be valuable to you — before you subscribe

Yesterday I took a webinar from a professional genealogist about making a research trip to do newspaper research. As a part of the research planning process, she looks for newspapers online -- if you can access a historical newspaper from home, it's better to do that before your trip -- then when you're on the research trip, you can use your time to look for the issues which are NOT online.

For the US Newspaper sites, her favorite is Newspapers.com, and mine is Genealogy Bank. Why? Because Newspapers.com has more newspapers from the places she needs, and Genealogy Bank has more newspapers from the places I need.

If this seems really obvious, I apologize, but apparently it isn't obvious to a lot of people.

Brian is right -- look for places you can try out the sites for free, like libraries, archives, your local LDS Family History Center/Centre, etc. And if you sign up for the email newsletters or follow sites on Facebook or Twitter, you can find out news about free access periods or get offer codes, as Jane said.

Planning what you want to look for first is the way to go. If you can get into good habits early (making plans and keeping a research log and journal) you'll be much better off.

See the FamilySearch Research Wiki for an example of a Strategic Research Log: https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Strate ... s--England

Hope this helps.

[joanchop]

I'm a newbie to FH and find the Find My Past hints excellent and easy to download and save to relevant folders. I think it is a case of researching what records each of the websites have to offer. Most of them do 'pay as you go' if you find a record you might not have, or even take out a months subscription. I have recently let my Ancestry subscription lapse and am now concentrating Using Find My Past and it is filling in quite a few gaps. Look out for offers. I picked up a Find My Past subscription for half price last year. Family Search is quite good and it is free. British Newspapers often have an offer of one month for a £1, although Find My Past also have newspapers to search. Hope this is of use!!

[jbrooks]

I think yes they can although there would appear to be inconsistencies/discepencies; before proceeding let me put this in context. My original research was 20+ years ago through talking to older relatives and then going through records at the Essex Record Office (ERO). The ERO have had online search capabilities with their SEAQ system for some years although different to the capabilities today. Still exists and managed to further my research into early Essex police records (not Parish Constables or municipal policing such as Colchester, Chelmsford or Maldon) and the formation of the force (using ERO references from 20 yrs ago) for free. They charge (not out of line with others) for parish register searches.

So I have electronic and paper records from Parish registers including marriages, christening and deaths. Also some manorial inscriptions taken personally hence I know death/internment detail. Taken 20+ years ago.

I purchased a well known CD for burials and disappointed with the search capabilities. I have had search results although it would appear challenging to repeat these. I am sure the data is in there although the search seems to give inconsistent results or perhaps has non intuitive capabilities. After all there have been very many burials indexed by volunteers and they can only be thanked very much. I would like to get at the raw data.

I have a hyphenated surname to research, mostly! Typically the Brooks in Brooks-Dowsett is the individuals middle name but not always. Also there are the expected variances of spelling in both parts of the name and also no Brooks in the name. Working through micro fiche at the ERO would appear to be less of an issue than using a service provider providing access to many records from a key board although takes more time.

I purchased FH 6.0 and got a free subscription to a well known service provider (SP). Results so far are indifferent. Census great although my verdict still out as still searching for known parish records that I have copies of and no result.

I have done "wild" searches on the internet and had results. Checking these in the SP no result. I have copies of Maldon, Essex parish records for marriages in the 19C and searched these on SP and no matches.

Good results (free) from LDS and mostly match my original parish record searches. Other SPs (and google) also appear to give results and tempted to try some other SPs.

As for official records from UK Gov regarding re-prints of BMD certificates then SP provides the indexes e.g. year/QTR/Ref.

I have not used the UK Gov online ordering facility and each certificate costs £9.95. I was paying £7 a certificate (identified at FRC London) over 20 years ago so from that prospective:- good value? Great to have a copy of the original. Also marriage certs give more information than parish marriage records in my experience.

In summary I am thinking the source of the records is the ERO (LDS may be an exception because they have been indexing for years) and does the capability of SPs come down to their computer integrations/post processing of the original records at record offices??

I would not give up on SPs as I made contact with BDs in Canada a few years back and it was great to talk to them. Also have a reference to Brooks Doucett (Essex dialect) in the US and potentially another part of the tree.

If you have the time try some searches on Rosanna Brooks Dowsett (christened 17 August 1862), Francis Brooks Dowsett (died age 0) and Charles Brooks (mar 12 Feb 1888 in St Mary Maldon Essex). See what results you get.
(See reply in Researching Brooks Dowsett (14103).)

It could be me using this incorrectly, but I have tried.

Thank you for reading and any feedback/assistance greatly appreciated.

Got an A0 print of my FH chart today, looking good (with errors) and a great research tool.

Kind regards Jonathan.

[AnneEast]

Jonathan, on all the big service providers you can check out which records they have. So for example if you are looking for Essex records on FindmyPast, i think you will find they don't have them, which is why nothing came up in the search. FMP are more likely to give 'no result' than Ancestry who like to throw anything remotely interesting into the pot (and sometimes those way out ones prove to be the one you were looking for!)

The source of all the parish record images and transcriptions has and continues to be the county archives. Many of the films you use on a visit to an archive are the very films made by Family Search as part of their indexing programme.

Marriage certificates since 1837 are the same from both the parish record or from the General Register Office. You can save yourself a lot of money by using the marriage images at a County Archive or from a service provider, and the parish one is more likely to have the real signatures of the bride, groom and witnesses.
Anne

[mjashby]

Jonathan,

Anne is absolutely correct in that both Ancestry and FindMyPast have comprehensive indexes of which records are available via their sites - Not sure about MyHeritage, because I've never used t and have never seen any particular need. Some of the records which are available on both Ancestry and FindMyPast are not fully indexed, but are only available for browsing (presumably, until indexing is completed). Also the automated matching facilities provided by these commercial entities don't find all potential matches on their sites as not all databases are included, e.g. automated matching on FindMyPast doesn't search the wide range of Newspaper records they have and that you can search directly on site.

You are right that Essex coverage on these sites isn't great; and no doubt that's something directly to do with Essex Records Office's (ERO) own service and a lack of contractual agreements with those providers. ERO has the copyright on all of the records it owns, so there's little others can do without a contractual agreement with the ERO. Another 'lesser known' data provider, TheGenealogist has clearly ventured into Essex with some determination and possibly does have some arrangement with the ERO as it currently boasts "over 2.5 million Essex Parish Register entries": https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/news/#latest

No-one has everything and that is an absolute requirement if there is to be any competition in the market; as these organisations aren't in the business for altruistic reasons, and that includes the ERO which needs to recover costs where it can.

Mervyn

[jbrooks]

Thank you for your replies. I have not tried findmypast or ancestry to date although probably will give it ago.

Not getting good results from genealogist regarding Essex Parish records; could be me. I may try a subscription with the ERO as most of my stuff is Essex although later stuff more further a field.

I will follow up on the tips regarding certificate images.

Thank you Jonathan.

[jbrooks]

I have been using online resources more and thought I would share recent search experiences. I have been trying to track down two Alfred Brooks Dowsett (from Toppesfield/Heybridge/Maldon Essex).

From a google "wild" (see what comes back) search I identified a Margaret Brooks Dowsett. Using genealogist identified a family in census records with a Alfred B Dowsett and Mary wife. Place of birth as Heybridge Essex was promising but ages in census not 100% ish in line/hard to read. From the 1911 census established marriage was 1884. Next search on genealogist gave a Alfred Brooke Dowsett mar Dec qtr 1884. Looked at their link to GRO reference and I was sure it was Alfred Brooks Dowsett and and not Alfred Brooke Dowsett. The year was 1883.

Searched again on the internet and confidence grew that I was on the right track.

In the snippet below I have provided the results of this research with one service provider offering 89K+ results if I sign up. As I am sure you all know this many results is not always helpful. Although they had indexed Alfred Brooks Dowsett's marriage not with the "e" but with an "s".

To be sure I have ordered the MC from the UK Gov GRO site, quite easy to use at £9.25. I have been unsuccessful at finding parish (church) records of this marriage.

For me still not decided on who to chose as an online service provider. I have other wild searches with results from C19 newspaper articles that look promising although need to sign up. Will try some more free subs and see what I get. For example I am interested to know how these SPs index the GRO marriage index because clearly two separate SPs give different results.

I am very interested to hear your SP experiences.

afbd2 mar example.JPG (90.57 KiB) Viewed 15678 times

[AnneEast]

FreeBMD provides the Q4 1883 result. All i needed was to enter Dowsett (surname) and Alfred (forename). I included the date range 1880 to 1890. There were only 3 results! Dowsett is an uncommon enough name by itself so you do not always need to put the whole 'Brooks Dowsett' name into search forms.

When searching start with the 'less is best' premise. You can always narrow it down if you get too many results.

As to which provider to choose it very much depends on your own needs and circumstances. Personally I need BOTH Ancestry and Find my Past for the different areas they cover. FMP does have the Newspaper, which is very useful and saves needing to subscribe to the British Newspapers site. As I live 150 to 300 miles from the County Archives I would need to visit, I think the cost of subscriptions is very small compared to travelling and staying overnight for just ONE visit.
Anne

[mjashby]

Genes Reunited is owned by brightsolid online publishing limited, which also owns FindMyPast, so I'll leave you to work out where the 'official' data records at Genes Reunited originate from. If you were to guess "Selected sub-sets of the data records available at FindMyPast", then you probably wouldn't be far wrong.

Where they get the volume of 'hits' from is anyone's guess. FindMyPast comes up with 36,000+ for Alfred Brooks DOWSETT if you don't specify any date ranges, and opt to include all variants of Forenames and Surnames.

[jbrooks]

I guess this will be an ongoing discussion. I have subscribed or is it succumbed! For census and 1837 BMD very good. However, do not be despondent if no results. Use some of their results to look further afield and on line (google). Try a search on findmypast and ancestry for marriage of Thomas G Brook; then try Clara Parsons (1821). The results are from familysearch (church of the LDS) and west Surrey Family History Society Transcriptions. And indifferent. These SP claim a lot but my thought is that they taking the easy route. Most annoying for me is that the London Metropolitan Archive refer you to these people and it would appear that they have not yet finished and original records closed. Not with the ERO, well done ERO. On findmypast and ancestry try a focused search for baps in Newport Essex of 1750 +/- 40 years; was this an 80 year period of celibacy?

They offer a lot and for anybody starting this out from fresh please do not treat online as the only fact, it is not.

These are my views only and no way linked to Family Historian.

Online I have managed to further my research so far with an entry in the Lancet of 1870 from somewhere out there.

Kind regards Jonathan

[David2416]

Don't forget that big commercial sites may offer free trials (remember to cancel before the end of the trial); also look out for special offers. The Genealogist currently offers a cashback in it's ad on "Family Tree". Email me direct if you want the discount code.

I just checked out the Ancestry Library edition in my local library in Suffolk (UK). You can use the Save button to email yourself with any discoveries. When you get home you can use the link provided to download an image of the document and/or a transcription. I just downloaded some electoral register entries for my grandfather. Ancestry send you a My Discoveries link which enables you to see the last 300 items you have discovered.

Family History Societies are a good source of information - Devon FHS has images of a number of parish registers - not indexed - but very useful.

I wouldn't have got as far as I have without subscription sites - but do remember to check terms and conditions to avoid automatic renewals.

[jmurphy]

To add to my earlier post --

Always, always, always download a copy of any record images (Ancestry calls them "citation media") to your own computer for use with Family Historian. The big subscription sites and sites like FamilySearch sometimes lose their rights to offer a data set, and if that happens, any online copies (such as the ones attached to an Ancestry online tree) vanish.

I also take screenshots, scrape the data, or print out what findmypast calls the transcription and what Ancestry calls the 'record page' (when attached to an online tree at Ancestry, if you hover over a source, there will be two buttons, one 'View image' and one 'View Record'.)

Findmypast knows what you have looked at before on your "My records" pages and will give you access to records you have already paid for by subscription (not sure about the PPV with credits, those might expire). Ancestry will NOT let you revisit the images of the items you've already looked at -- the only thing visible to you will be anything in their free collections, which are mostly indexes if my memory is correct.

Given that access can change at any time due to rights issues, it's better to get into the habit of downloading the things you are interested in and capturing the data when you see it, even with sites that are more generous like Findmypast.

[davidm_uk]

(not sure about the PPV with credits, those might expire)

I've used FMP PPV credits for a few years, with gaps in between when credits have been used up (or lost when expired), but I still have access to all of the records I've payed for. I don't rely on that though, and download everything that I want to keep, from all sites, even if it's only a screen capture.

[jbrooks]

Agree with all said and there is much out there that is free. Also Family History Society's (FHS) provide free and cheaper options although have experience of one FHS search engine providing no result but a search on FMP providing a result from a transcript from that FHS. Always look where the FMP data has been sourced (bottom left of their transcript results).

Unrelated to the above for Essex and Suffolk this may be of use:-

http://essexandsuffolksurnames.co.uk/

For the Uttlesford hundred data ranges from nothing to fantastic (click on the windmill); I got lucky.

http://www.recordinguttlesfordhistory.org.uk/

Transcripts are great although I think a subscription to the ERO is over due for me to verify transcripts.

My views only.

regards Jonathan.

[davidm_uk]

Also Online Parish Clerks websites can be very useful for area specific research, for example http://www.opcdorset.org/index.htm for Dorset.

If you google "Online Parish Clerks" you'll find quite a few and many of them are free to use.