* Use of C and E drives on pc

[Johnr65]

As in my previous post about using Google Drive for my projects which is now doing so successfully, we talked about my pc which has 2 drives, C which is an SSD, and holds 110GB and E normal which has 931GB.
I was unaware initially of the 2 drives assuming that C was the main drive but it was originally put in I think to hold the major pc programs such as ASUS and Intel but other downloaded files subsequently downloaded to C as it was named as default. When I realized what was happening I made E the default. However, some programs like One Drive have gone on to C when I'd prefer it to go on to E; it also seems there is a duplication of some programs on C and E.
How can I change this without upsetting the pc's workings?

C Drive programs 3105.odt

(138.08 KiB) Downloaded 223 times

[Johnr65]

On same subject inline E drive programs.

E Drive programs 3105.odt

(476.99 KiB) Downloaded 234 times

[DavidNewton]

To move the OneDrive folder is a multi-step process and is well described here

https://www.laptopmag.com/uk/articles/m ... ive-folder

David

[tatewise]

I have moved this topic to the General Forum because it does not involve Family Historian.

Thank you for that advice David but some screenshots in that link are out of date and may confuse users.

John, can you please avoid attaching .odt files as some users may not be able to open them.
Please use the screenshot .jpg or .png files instead. You can attach up to three per posting.

There are other issues involved that require an explanation of the differences between installed programs and their associated data, but I may not have time today to discuss them.

[Gowermick]

In general, C is chosen as the default drive for most programme installations, as that is the first (and possibly the only) Hard disk on a computer, (A and B drives being reserved for floppy drives, and rarely used nowadays). I think to move away from the default C for program installation is best avoided, especially in your situation, where the C is an SSD, and so generally better for speedy start up of programmes.
If a programme has already been installed on your E drive, it is no simple matter to move it to the C drive, you may be better off uninstalling it, and re-installing on the C drive, taking care to preserve any associated data beforehand.

May I suggest you stick with C drive as the main default drive, and use the slower E drive for your data (what happened to your D drive?) Whilst most programmes install to C drive by default, most would also be happy to have the E drive for their associated data.

The decision is yours to make of course

[Valkrider]

I think to move away from the default C for program installation is best avoided, especially in your situation, where the C is an SSD, and so generally better for speedy start up of programmes.

Sorry I do not agree with this advice with only 110gb drive, if you have a lot of programmes you will soon fill it up. The operating system is what takes a long time to fire up and so should be kept on an SSD, programmes can be happily kept on your E drive and will start reasonably rapidly. But the choice is yours as to which advice to follow.

[Johnr65]

I prefer the C Drive to only be used for pc usage programs like ASUS and Intel, other programs should go on E especially as the C is much smaller than E.

[Johnr65]

Mike, I've changed the odt to pdf then jpg.

C Drive programs 3105-page-001.jpg (75.74 KiB) Viewed 11919 times

E Drive programs 3105-page-001.jpg (86.85 KiB) Viewed 11919 times

E Drive programs 3105-page-002.jpg (138.78 KiB) Viewed 11919 times

[Gowermick]

The operating system is what takes a long time to fire up and so should be kept on an SSD

I certainly agree with that! My wife’s Laptop has an SSD, and that is blisteringly fast to start up (5-10 seconds to boot!). It helps she also has an i9 processor to go with it

[tatewise]

John, I now have some time to help you review your use of C: and E: drives.
Conventionally, the ideal arrangement is to install Windows 10 and all Programs on C: SSD and keep all Data on E: HDD.
Most Programs are designed to work best on the C: drive, and most allow their Data to be on any drive.
Later on, we will discuss how to distinguish between Programs and Data so you know what should go where.

Although your SSD is not large it should accommodate Windows 10 and all Programs with room to spare.
My PC needs about 80 GB of its SSD for Windows 10 & Programs but probably has more than your PC such as:

• MS Office 365 (Word, Excel, etc, etc.), OpenOffice, Adobe Acrobat, Nitro PDF, IrfanView, Firefox, Chrome, Avast, ...
• Over 30 genealogy products including FH, AS, Heredis, Legacy, MyHeritage, RootsMagic, TMG for testing my Plugins
• Lots of general-purpose utilities, including CamStudio that needs 5 GB on its own

There is also Windows reserved space for Recycle Bin, System Restore, Virtual Memory, etc, that can probably be reduced without undue side-effects.

To illustrate the difference between Program files and Data files let us examine FH that you are familiar with.
When you install FH it adds files in several folder locations summarise below:

1. Family Historian program & essential files go in C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian
2. Family Historian PDF printer driver goes into C:\Program Files (x86)\Calico Pie\Family Historian PDF
3. Family Historian customisation files go into C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian and Windows Registry
4. Microsoft Visual C++ library modules go into C:\Windows\System32 (but these modules are not easy to identify)
5. Family Historian Sample Project is added to ...\Documents\Family Historian Projects

If you check those folders in Windows File Explorer you should find them all except that 1. may be in your E:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian folder if you chose to install FH there. BTW: You won't find the Windows Registry.

They are all Program files that are best kept on C: except for 5. the Family Historian Projects folder that holds your Project Data and can be relocated anywhere, and you have moved to the Google Drive folder.

I should explain that 3. the C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian customisation files are what I call Profiles that govern how the FH Program behaves, but can be changed by you the user when you customise Diagrams, Reports, Queries, Plugins, etc. However, they must reside on the C: drive.

Similarly, if you install an office product such as Microsoft Office or OpenOffice the Program files should go on the C: drive but the document Data files such as .docx or .odt go in your E:\Documents folder.

Let me know how you get on with reviewing the above and if you have any questions before we start changing anything.

[Johnr65]

Looking at my C drive programs (86), it holds 1. Family Historian which seems to be books, diagrams, property box, etc. from 2017/18.
2. Calico Pie which holds Family Historian pdf from 2017
as well as a lot of other programs such as ASUS, Adobe, FreeReg, Google, IE, Microsoft Office -which seems to be 14 & 16?
Common Files, Apple update, NVIDIA, OpenAL, and Overwolf which you can see from my previous screenshot.

E drive programs(86) hold Ancestral Sources, Calico Pie which also holds Family Historian pdf from 2017, Family Historian which seems to be a duplication of what is on C, Google, Intel, etc which you can see on the screenshot.

It seems that are lot of programs are duplicated and I'm frightened to delete any of them in case....

[tatewise]

It looks like there is plenty of tidying up that needs to be performed. But do NOT delete anything.
Usually, Programs must be uninstalled, and if necessary re-installed, to tidy up their files.

It seems as if FH has been installed on your C: drive and also on your E: drive at different times.
Therefore you have NOT saved any space on the C: drive by installing FH on the E: drive.
The Family Historian folders Books, Diagrams, Property Box, etc, hold the Installation Settings for the customisation files for Diagrams, Property Box, Queries, Reports, etc.
There are two unique folders in the C: and E: copies of \Program Files (x86)\Family Historian:
Samples which holds the master copy of the Family Historian Sample Project.
Program which holds the FH application program files, help files, etc.
In the Program folder, what is the Date modified for the Fh.exe Application file in the C: drive and E: drive copies?

Did you find the C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian folder?

A similar pattern appears to apply to other programs.
Perhaps you did not realise that to recover space on C: you needed to uninstall programs before installing on E: drive.

BTW: I can see why your File Explorer does not show a Move to button, as it has the ribbon minimised.
Click on the small V down arrow next to the blue ? top right and the ribbon will expand down.
Click on the small ^ up arrow that takes its place and the ribbon is minimised. We may need to use that later.

[Johnr65]

Is the fh.exe shown within the program as the FH icon as Application 8695kb? If so then date is 25/5/2018 on C prograns (86).
In E programs (86) it is shown as 8696kb date 17/5/2017.

I can't find C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian on either drive, all I have is Calico Pie Family Historian pdf 10/6/17 on C, on E it's 5/6/17.

Now found the ribbon and have unchecked the minimize, so can see all now,

[tatewise]

Yes, that is the FH Application program executable.

The size 8695 KB and date 25/05/2018 17:00 in C:\Program Files (x86) is IDENTICAL to my FH V6.2.7 installation, so that must be your latest installed version.

The size & date of the copy in E:\Program Files (x86) suggests it is an older obsolete version.

So despite what you think, it looks like you used the C: drive to install FH last time. What do you think?
Anyway, the space used by those two FH and FH PDF folders in Program Files (x86) is only 41.5 MB so quite tiny.
You can right-click their folders and choose Properties to confirm their size.


Now you have the File Explorer ribbon expanded please make the following adjustment.
Select the View tab top left, and in the middle tick File name extensions and Hidden items below.
The 1st tick will show .exe or .odt or whatever file extension type follows the filename of every file.
The 2nd tick will let you discover the C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian hidden folder.

When you find it, right-click the folder and choose Properties to discover its size. Please tell me that size?

[Johnr65]

The file still looks the same on C for Calico Pie and 4.23MB and 4.26MB on drive holding 17 files and 3 folders.

[tatewise]

John, sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about and how it belongs to the earlier discussion.
With this kind of tricky diagnostic dialogue, you must be very precise, give full path names, complete details, etc, etc, ...
Or attach some screenshots, if that is easier.

[Johnr65]

I've done what you asked of me regarding using the ribbon to show file names and hidden but it doesn't show anything different as I explained.
So it doesn't show C:\ProgramData\Calico Pie\Family Historian

Doc1-page-001.jpg (103.16 KiB) Viewed 11491 times

[Gowermick]

The image shows you have highlighted C:\Program Files (x86)\Calico Pie
If you look at left-hand column, below C:\Program Files (x86), there is C:\ProgramData folder, and that is the folder you should be highlighting and inspecting.

[tatewise]

I could not have said it any better!

John, if you do not concentrate on these subtle details, then I will lose patience with helping you out.

[Johnr65]

I'm sincerely sorry, Mike, but I don't understand these parts of my pc as you do. I'd thought that the 'hidden' folder would show in the main body of the programs, not down the left-hand side. However looking at that I'm amazed at how much is hidden in there, even programs I never use now and thought I'd uninstalled long since! It begs the question of why the uninstall process doesn't work properly?
Anyway, I've found what you were looking for and as I looked at properties the size increased as I looked at it and is now shown here.

Doc1.jpg (199.91 KiB) Viewed 11407 times

[Gowermick]

John, you are looking at ProgramData which as name suggests is where programs store data generated by the program, not the programs themselves.

When you uninstall a program, these files are NOT deleted! Would you really want all your documents deleted, just because you deleted the program that created them. For example you’d be a bit annoyed if all your pictures and artwork were deleted, just because you deleted a paint program you no longer use.

If you have deleted a program that has left data in the programdata folder, you can delete it yourself if you think necessary. It will not be deleted automatically.

[tatewise]

OK, to briefly summarise without going too much into technical details:

• C:\Program Files\ is where the 64-bit programs install their executable application files, Help files, etc.
• C:\Program Files (x86)\ is where 32-bit programs install their executable application files, Help files, etc.
• C:\ProgramData\ is where programs keep profile data (NOT your documents & pictures as Mike suggests).
  e.g. FH keeps Diagram, Report, Query, Fact Set, Plugin, etc, customisation files here (NOT your Project data).
• C:\Windows\ is where shareable tools are installed such as the MS Visual C++ Library needed by FH.
• Windows Registry is not a folder but holds important configuration details about programs.

All but the first two cannot be easily relocated anywhere else.
So when a program is installed you can choose an alternative to the C:\Program Files... folders, but that is unwise because the developer will have tested the program in that default folder and there is a risk it may not work properly elsewhere.

Look at what else gets installed in those other locations (that I suspect you were unaware of), so only a small subset of files has been moved off the C: drive to another drive, and thus little C: drive space has been saved.

Also, if you don't remember which location you used to install a program, you waste twice the space, as in your case where the same FH files exist in C:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian AND E:\Program Files (x86)\Family Historian and you don't know which is the master copy!

I hope that makes sense, and we are now ready to tidy up your C: & E: drive starting with OneDrive.
Here is a summary of the OneDrive components:

• C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft OneDrive is where the OneDrive program and Help files are installed.
• C:\ProgramData\Microsoft OneDrive is where it keeps its profile log files.
• C:\Users\...\OneDrive is where your documents exist and needs to be moved to E:\Documents\OneDrive alongside E:\Documents\Google Drive saving 5 GB of space on your C: drive.

We will tackle that task next, but DO NOT try moving that folder yourself.
When you reply that you are happy so far, I will give you step by step instructions.

[Johnr65]

I guess my problem is that the guys who originally built the pc forgot to tell me that they'd installed the SSD as C and a separate E drive. With most downloadable programs they don't ask me where to install them and assume C, as C is the norm for most if not all pcs? Thus I was very worried that these programs that have defaulted to C would fill it up as it is small compared to E.

[Johnr65]

I wondered why there was a programs and programs(86) folder-I'd thought the 86 was for my programs and the other for system programs.
Step by step instructions will be super.

[tatewise]

I hope you appreciate why I have taken a little time to explain the C: drive architecture.
Yes, the expected default is that all programs should be installed on the C: drive.
As I've explained, even if you try to install programs elsewhere, a lot of installed files end up on the C: drive anyway.
110 GB should be enough for the Windows 10 operating system and all installed programs.

What the guys should have done is either customise the settings so that all your documents, pictures, etc, automatically land on the E: drive, or told you that is where you should save them. They should have recommended that you continue to install programs on the C: drive for improved performance. Otherwise, there is limited advantage in having an SSD.

After we have moved the OneDrive folder to the E: drive tomorrow, there are other items that might be hogging space on the C: drive that can be reduced or moved, and should have been adjusted by those same guys who fitted the relatively small SSD.