* Where's the data?

AS allows faster and more convenient creation of source records for Family Historian.
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dichorionic
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Where's the data?

Post by dichorionic »

I have only been using AS this year, largely for census entries but occasionally for marriage and baptism records. I love AS for data entry and have used it considerably in recent weeks. However, only recently I have noticed that when the AS data is saved to FamilyHistorian it does so as generic source rather than as the appropriate template. In addition, I notice that much of the subsidiary data that I enter into AS, e.g. godparents in baptisms, the additional fields in censuses etc., disappear when I look for it in FH. I've looked in Notes fields and the Sources bullet point fields to no effect. I presume the data exists somewhere. Recording additional data is possibly the biggest advantage for me of using AS.

I'm using FH 7.0.11 and was using AS 7.3.2 until updating to 7.4.4 today. I have not personalised Options which have been left at default settings. What am I doing wrong?
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by jbtapscott »

I'm sure Nick W, the AS Author, will respond with more detail in due course, but a few things spring to mind.

I don't use Source Templates, but have you turned that processing "on" within AS (Tools / Options / Use template Sources)?. There is a section in the AS Help covering Templates, etc.

For the Census data, only certain Facts will get updated in FH when saving - these are covered in the Help (which also shows how to identify which will / will not get updated). Examples that could get added would be Residence, Occupation, Religion, etc., but you would need to set the options "on" for this within AS. If you input data for which Facts do not exist within FH (eg. Employment Status, Industry, etc), then this information is lost unless you select the appropriate Autotext Template.

For items such as GodParents, Witnesses, etc., you need to make sure that the Association name you select on, say, the Baptism / Further Info tab, matches exactly the Witness Role Names on the related Fact Type in FH.
Brent Tapscott ~ researching the Tapscott and Wallace family history
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by tatewise »

With problems like this, it is useful to be very specific about the settings you used in AS and a screenshot helps too.
e.g.
Baptism > Further Info tab > Association: Godparents set to Just a name and on clicking Edit... the Method: is Witness Role.
If your AS setup is the same then the Baptism event should have a Fact Witness for Godparent giving the name only.
Have you checked the Fact Witnesses on your Baptism events by double-clicking the fact on the Facts tab?

When it comes to other types of Fact Witness roles defined in AS, they are not all defined in FH.
See FHUG Knowledge Base Family Historian Birth & Death Informant & Other Witness Roles.

Specifically what "additional fields in censuses etc" are you having problems with?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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NickWalker
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by NickWalker »

dichorionic wrote: 15 Aug 2022 12:25 I have only been using AS this year, largely for census entries but occasionally for marriage and baptism records. I love AS for data entry and have used it considerably in recent weeks. However, only recently I have noticed that when the AS data is saved to FamilyHistorian it does so as generic source rather than as the appropriate template.
Brent and Mike have made the relevant points, but just to reiterate that by default AS uses generic sources. AS has been in existence for over 12 years and templated sources only appeared in the most recent version of FH. However, as Brent has said it's very easy to switch on this feature in AS.
In addition, I notice that much of the subsidiary data that I enter into AS, e.g. godparents in baptisms, the additional fields in censuses etc., disappear when I look for it in FH. I've looked in Notes fields and the Sources bullet point fields to no effect. I presume the data exists somewhere. Recording additional data is possibly the biggest advantage for me of using AS.
I'm using FH 7.0.11 and was using AS 7.3.2 until updating to 7.4.4 today. I have not personalised Options which have been left at default settings. What am I doing wrong?
Regarding census records, there are multiple columns, particularly in 20th century census records that don't really map to existing facts in Family Historian. e.g. there isn't a fact to record relationship (son, daughter, etc). As the AS help guide for census records says:
Only column entries with headings shaded in a darker colour will be added as facts or fact notes in the GEDCOM family history file when the entry is saved. There is no point filling in the other columns unless you will use the Auto text feature to help to record a census transcription as this is the only place that these data items will be saved.
So to summarise, for census sources AS will generate facts where they can be generated or add to notes where appropriate (e,g. 'employment status' gets added to the occupation fact local note). All of the information is stored in the source text if you're using the auto text feature to help you to transcribe the census record.

Regarding witnesses such as god parents, by default these are recorded using the witness roles in Family Historian. e.g. if you added god parents have a look in FH at the baptism fact for the individual on the Facts tab and you'll see the god parents mentioned in the sentence at the bottom.
Nick Walker
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https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by NickWalker »

tatewise wrote: 15 Aug 2022 14:55 When it comes to other types of Fact Witness roles defined in AS, they are not all defined in FH.
See FHUG Knowledge Base Family Historian Birth & Death Informant & Other Witness Roles.
You're correct although that article hasn't been updated for version 7 of FH. I believe that informant is defined in FH 7 (something I requested).
Nick Walker
Ancestral Sources Developer

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
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dichorionic
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by dichorionic »

Thank you, Brent, for an insightful reply. I did not realise Source Templates needed to be switched on and I'm sure that will make a huge difference. The gedcom Facts do get updated, but I shall also look at the Autotext templates.

Thank you, Mike, again, for the clarification. I had tried double-clicking the appropriate Fact type but there was nothing. However, I have now set Godparents to Just a Name and hope that will sort that aspect out.

Nick. Thank you so much. AS in its more recent iteration has been a godsend for me and I only wish something like this was available many years ago when data started to explode onto the web. I have, perhaps, been too keen to use it and not spent enough time exploring it. The autotext facility seems to have sorted things out for a couple of censuses and I suspect the godparents will now materialise.

Having only converted to FH a year ago and started AS a few months ago I am still on a learning curve with these comprehensive and adaptable programs. More specifically, I have recently been assimilating a lot of Canadian census and church records which is why I was concerned about the loss of so much data that I had entered meticulously. I'm not sure whether to re-do what would be many hours of work or to 'top-up' the existing entries. I've become rather attached to Template sources and wish I could convert older sources to the same format. As to updating all the data I entered before switching to FH .... I don't think I'll live long enough!

Thanks,
Peter
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by NickWalker »

dichorionic wrote: 15 Aug 2022 19:43 Having only converted to FH a year ago and started AS a few months ago I am still on a learning curve with these comprehensive and adaptable programs. More specifically, I have recently been assimilating a lot of Canadian census and church records which is why I was concerned about the loss of so much data that I had entered meticulously. I'm not sure whether to re-do what would be many hours of work or to 'top-up' the existing entries. I've become rather attached to Template sources and wish I could convert older sources to the same format. As to updating all the data I entered before switching to FH .... I don't think I'll live long enough!
If you create your future AS entries using template sources then you may find the next 'major' AS release (coming soon) useful as this has a feature that can be used to help convert generic census sources into template sources. It will still require a little bit of work but considerably less than re-doing them.
Nick Walker
Ancestral Sources Developer

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by tatewise »

dichorionic wrote: 15 Aug 2022 19:43 Thank you, Mike, again, for the clarification. I had tried double-clicking the appropriate Fact type but there was nothing. However, I have now set Godparents to Just a Name and hope that will sort that aspect out.
Changing Godparents from Individual in file to Just a name may not materially change anything, except that instead of linking to another person the name is just a dead end.

What matters is if you click Edit..., what does it say for both Method: used to record Godparents?
Is it Witness Role, Association Structure, Local Note, Not Recorded, etc, etc, for the two options?

Presumably, you did enter a Name: for the Godparent and clicked the Add button.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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dichorionic
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by dichorionic »

Thank you Mike. Yes, it is 'Witness role' and, as far as I recall, I'm fairly sure I clicked 'Add'. They were a bunch of, mainly Catholic, Canadian baptisms which I added recently. My only hesitation/doubt is that I wrote both godparents in the space rather than one at a time. Could I have confused the Add with the Note field? I hope not, but cannot be certain.

Peter
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by tatewise »

Peter, it sounds like that is where you went wrong.

Originally, I believe you had Individual in file selected.
Therefore, to add a Name: you must << Select an Individual record from the list in the righthand pane one at a time and click Add for each one to compile a list of Associated Individuals in the box above.

You cannot simply type multiple names in Name: as plain text. That is only possible with Just a name selected.
But you must still click Add to update the list of Associated Individuals above.

The Associated Individuals list can include Godparents, Minister, etc, depending on the Association: chosen.

Note: text will only get added to each successfully added Associated Individual.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
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dichorionic
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Re: Where's the data?

Post by dichorionic »

Thanks again. It explains all.
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