* AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

AS allows faster and more convenient creation of source records for Family Historian.
Post Reply
User avatar
BEJ
Famous
Posts: 210
Joined: 10 Sep 2018 17:29
Family Historian: V7
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by BEJ »

I have installed the latest version of Ancestral Sources (7.2.7): see screenshot. Yet, I on launch from FH7 I consistently get the error memo (see screenshot): Later Version 5.0 of this Plugin is available from the Family Historian Store.

Advice?
Screenshot 2021-05-06 08.33.58.png
Screenshot 2021-05-06 08.33.58.png (317.63 KiB) Viewed 3895 times
Attachments
Screenshot 2021-05-06 08.05.29.png
Screenshot 2021-05-06 08.05.29.png (217.88 KiB) Viewed 3895 times
User avatar
Valkrider
Megastar
Posts: 1563
Joined: 04 Jun 2012 19:03
Family Historian: V7
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by Valkrider »

The message you are seeing related to the Ancestral Sources Data Entry plugin which is one of the plugins you have in Family Historian and it is that which needs an update. This is the plugin that invokes the Ancestral Sources program.
User avatar
BEJ
Famous
Posts: 210
Joined: 10 Sep 2018 17:29
Family Historian: V7
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by BEJ »

Thanks. I confused Ancestral Sources APPLICATION with Ancestral Sources PLUGIN.
User avatar
ColeValleyGirl
Megastar
Posts: 5464
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

BEJ, many people do -- it isn't the clearest of distinctions. I've often thought the plugin should be renamed 'Launch Ancestral Sources' for clarity.
User avatar
BEJ
Famous
Posts: 210
Joined: 10 Sep 2018 17:29
Family Historian: V7
Location: Boston, Massachusetts, USA
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by BEJ »

👍
User avatar
NickWalker
Megastar
Posts: 2597
Joined: 02 Jan 2004 17:39
Family Historian: V7
Location: Lancashire, UK
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by NickWalker »

ColeValleyGirl wrote: 06 May 2021 13:54 BEJ, many people do -- it isn't the clearest of distinctions. I've often thought the plugin should be renamed 'Launch Ancestral Sources' for clarity.
Yes this would be very helpful as I do have to field a lot of questions about this and also some people think Ancestral Sources was created by the wonderful Mike Tate rather than the distinctly average me :)
Nick Walker
Ancestral Sources Developer

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28333
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by tatewise »

I am fairly sure that in its first inception the plugin was called something like Run or Invoke Ancestral Source Data Entry.
Users said it was too longwinded so it was shortened.
To change it now would possibly confuse existing users and there are also several help pages that would need reworking.

The plugin is actually called Ancestral Sources Data Entry and the user installs it from the Plugin Store.
Whereas, Ancestral Sources must be installed by the user as an application downloaded from the FHUG KB.
I do find it amazing that with those two distinct processes the two components get confused.

Would it help if the Plugin said something like the following near the top of its dialogue window:
This FH PLUGIN launches the Ancestral Sources PROGRAM by Nick Walker.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
NickWalker
Megastar
Posts: 2597
Joined: 02 Jan 2004 17:39
Family Historian: V7
Location: Lancashire, UK
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by NickWalker »

I agree it's probably too late to change the name now. I think the problem is that when people install it (and AS) they know what they're doing but a few months down the line some people forget the distinction between the two and get confused.

Perhaps the message about a new version could say something extra, e.g. "note that this message refers to the plugin that launches Ancestral Sources and not the Ancestral Sources application".

Yes that extra message might help but I'd prefer "application" rather than "program".
Nick Walker
Ancestral Sources Developer

https://fhug.org.uk/kb/kb-article/ancestral-sources/
User avatar
ColeValleyGirl
Megastar
Posts: 5464
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

tatewise wrote: 06 May 2021 14:15 I do find it amazing that with those two distinct processes the two components get confused.
Mike, perhaps the fact that users do get confused is an indication that many people's brains don't work like yours? I don't think existing users would get confused, so perhaps amending "several help pages" (3 by my count -- hardly several -- 4 if you include the plugin page) will be worth it for new users. I'm happy to edit them if necessary.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28333
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by tatewise »

Nick, APPLICATION instead of PROGRAM is OK.
Changing the message wording is a bit trickier because the 'Check Version In Store' is among my library modules and the wording is identical for all my plugins.

Helen, how do we manage the name change?
How do all existing users get informed that they need to update to an identical plugin that simply has a different name?
Do we create a new Plugin with the new name & new Help pages and mark the old one as superseded by the new one?
We have to keep both the old and the new Help pages because both the old and new plugins need them.

Seems like a lot of reworking and no guarantee that users will be any the wiser.
All the existing users will continue to be 'confused' until they need to install an update to the Plugin.
That is unlikely, as apart from the three recent FH v7 updates, it had not been changed for over 5 years.
And one of those changes was to allow Nick to run two copies of AS.

I'm surprised that BEJ misunderstood the message:
Later Version 5.0 of this Plugin is available from the Family Historian 'Plugin Store'.
It says Plugin twice and specifically mentions the Family Historian 'Plugin Store'.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
User avatar
ColeValleyGirl
Megastar
Posts: 5464
Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
Family Historian: V7
Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by ColeValleyGirl »

Mike, I think you have to accept (based on Nick's experience) that users do get confused, however much you think they shouldn't -- the difference between a plugin and an application might be obvious to thee and me, but most users couldn't care less about technical niceties -- they just want to enter data.

As you point out, existing users are unlikely to need to install a new version (and they are more likely to become used to the overlap until a popup confuses them). Amending the popup (as Nick suggests) might be sufficient -- a simple if then statement might be all that would be needed to handle the special case. The better option (a much more clear name) may be the horse that has bolted -- although I'm surprised that users said the name was too longwinded when they only have to click on it most of the time. Alternatively you could remove the version check from the plugin as it's rarely needed and rely on people checking for updates.
User avatar
tatewise
Megastar
Posts: 28333
Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
Family Historian: V7
Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
Contact:

Re: AS Error Message: Data Entry 4.9

Post by tatewise »

Whatever I do, it is likely to rebound on us.
If we leave well alone, as you say, there will probably be no update to the Plugin for many years, so no popup message.
If we update it to change or remove the 'Check Version In Store' or add a message to its dialogue window, then users will get the popup message saying there is a later version in the Plugin Store and we'll get a lot of confused users to deal with.
So I think it best to leave well alone.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
Post Reply