* Ancestral Sources Census Citations

AS allows faster and more convenient creation of source records for Family Historian.
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allenawilson
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Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by allenawilson » 27 Jan 2021 22:22

I understand the difference between methods 1 and 2, but the Ancestral Sources wiki for the Census Recording Method (Method 1), says "This method will result in many sources, but each transcript and associated notes and images are all recorded in one place, which makes corrections and updates easy to perform". I'm trying to understand, but it appears to create a separate "citation" for each fact, not a separate "source." Am I understanding this correctly? And why would I need a separate citation for each fact (that could use the same citation) for one individual? Why not one citation attached to each fact for that individual?

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BillH
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Re: Census Citations

Post by BillH » 27 Jan 2021 22:36

allenawilson wrote:
27 Jan 2021 22:22
I understand the difference between methods 1 and 2, but the Ancestral Sources wiki for the Census Recording Method (Method 1), says "This method will result in many sources, but each transcript and associated notes and images are all recorded in one place, which makes corrections and updates easy to perform".
What this alludes to is that each census that you enter using ancestral sources will create a separate source record. For example if you entered a census for person A for 1900 and another one for Person B in 1910 then there would be two source records created. All information for each census would reside in the source, including the source image if you attach one. This means only 1 place needs to be updated if a change is necessary. A citation is then created between the census record and each fact that is confirmed by that source.

I don't use type 2 sources in general, but if a type two source is used then many different census entries might be linked to that source. For example if you had just one source for the 1900 census and one entry was for person A in one city and another was for person B in another city then you would have to put the information for each person in the citations rather than in the source which results in a lot more work if you need to make changes to the information.

I hope that helps. If not I'm sure someone else will give it a try.

Bill
Last edited by BillH on 27 Jan 2021 22:38, edited 1 time in total.
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NickWalker
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Re: Census Citations

Post by NickWalker » 27 Jan 2021 22:37

Think of a citation as being a link between a fact and a source. Every time you link a fact to a source you need a citation to create the link. A citation can't be shared between facts. You can put information inside a citation and then duplicate that so it would feel like one citation, but each would be a separate copy and therefore any changes would need to be made to each of those copies. By using 'method 1', the citations are effectively just links between the facts and the source with no data within them (or very little) so this duplication of data and consequent repetitious editing of the citation isn't an issue.
Nick Walker
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http://www.ancestralsources.com

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tatewise
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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by tatewise » 27 Jan 2021 22:48

As the AS help implies, Method 1 will create one Source record per Census household page.
Therefore, in total that will result in many more Source records than Method 2 that will typically only have one Source record per Census year.
With Method 1, all the details of its one Census household page will be contained in the Source record.
With Method 2, all it can identify is the whole Census year.

The number of Citations, which link each derived Fact to the Source record, will be exactly the same.
For Method 1, each Citation will hold little or no details because it is all in the Source record.
For Method 2, each Citation must hold the transcript and Census page image.

The above scheme is dictated by the GEDCOM specification that FH adheres to.

I think you have migrated from FTM, which has a different scheme in which the Source Citation is linked directly to each Fact and that scheme is used by several other products, but when exported to GEDCOM such products have to introduce separate Citations and Source records.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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allenawilson
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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by allenawilson » 28 Jan 2021 00:07

Thank you all very much. I understand now. I think a lot of my confusion results from different interpretations of terms such as source, citation, fact, event, attribute, etc. As Mr. Tate mentioned, I AM coming from FTM to Family Historian. But one of the reasons I'm changing is because of GEDCOM specifications. I'm still working with a test file, but really like the way Family Historian does things. I especially like the sentence construction in reports and being able to add witnesses. You will all hear from me again. I'll have more questions! Ha! And by the way, Mr. Tate, love your "Change Any Fact Tag" plug in! And Mr. Walker, the Ancestral Sources is a game changer!
Regards, from a very satisfied user.

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allenawilson
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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by allenawilson » 28 Jan 2021 19:26

Following the thinking of maintaining GEDCOM compliance, let me ask the following. A source is created for a death certificate (personally held). Is it better to create a new citation for each fact that it is used for? As opposed to "copy and paste" of a single citation? And knowing that sources that are created using a template are converted to free-form when a GEDCOM is generated, is there any advantage to creating the sources using a generic or free-form source template to begin with?

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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by BillH » 28 Jan 2021 19:36

It just depends if you have put anything in the citation which is unique to a specific fact or not. Personally I do not add anything to the citation that is unique to one fact. If I am working on an individual or family and the source applies to another fact then I will use copy and paste to add the citation to that fact. However, if I am creating a new person or family I just use the Add Citation button and select the source from the list rather than using copy paste. It really doesn't matter which method you use.

I am still on version 6.2 so can't comment on the templated source question in your post.

Bill
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tatewise
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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by tatewise » 28 Jan 2021 20:17

Assuming you want the same Citation content for each Fact, then Copy & Paste is more efficient because it includes the link to the Source record. Otherwise, if you create a new Citation for each such Fact then you must find and link the Source record.

An alternative is Automatic Source Citations, which like AS, creates Citations of the same Source for each new Fact.

The exported Source records in GEDCOM can take a number of different formats and the Generic and Templated Source formats are very different. So you need to discover what each of the options produces and choose accordingly.

Firstly, what method are you using to create GEDCOM files?
1) File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File... command or 2) Export Gedcom File plugin?

What are you intending to do with the exported GEDCOM file?
If it is destined for some other specific product(s) then GEDCOM compliance may not help much.
Also which specification, GEDCOM 5.5 or GEDCOM 5.5.1?
Some products work better with one than the other and most are not very compliant.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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allenawilson
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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by allenawilson » 28 Jan 2021 21:07

Thank you Bill and Mike for the answers and suggestions.

Mr. Tate, I haven't yet created a GEDCOM from a Family Historian file. I upload to a website created using TNG software. (from FTM) But one of the reasons I began using Family Historian was the Export Gedcom File plugin. And you're right about exporting with GEDCOM 5.5 or GEDCOM 5.5.1. But in previous experience, after importing any GEDCOM file into any other software, source templates were replaced with just generic free-form sources. I'll experiment using the plugin and see what changes I might want to make. And I need to explore Automatic Source Citations more.

Thanks again. Allen.

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Re: Ancestral Sources Census Citations

Post by tatewise » 28 Jan 2021 22:53

There are several users here who export using that Plugin to TNG, with most data migrating successfully.
The Plugin has some special features designed to work with TNG and those regular users would offer advice.
TNG is one of those products that does not faithfully adhere to either GEDCOM 5.5 or 5.5.1 and is a hybrid.
The Plugin has Help & Advice for migrating to TNG but needs updating for FH V7 because I am working through the advice for the two dozen products supported. The Plugin works well and it is just the advice that needs details updating.
Please post in the Importing and Exporting Forum for further advice on this topic.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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