* Default Surnames on 'Add a child'

[davidf]

Copying this across from another thread, Surname prefix (SPFX) -- more generally, handling structured names. (20719), as I think it breaks new ground.

In any case, I will throw in a link that I saved some time ago about Spanish family names: http://yuba.stanford.edu/~molinero/html/surname.html This is just for information but it does appear to me that it will be important if it's ever desired to predict the name of a "Spanish" child from the names of the parents. That ability exists now for purely "English" format names in that it will carry down the father's family name as a default for any child - unless you switch it off. Clearly such a carry down to generate a default in Spanish names would require the isolation of the different parts of the family name.

That is an area I have been wondering about! I have on the tabs next to this tab
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_naming_customs (Often - how often?: Father's 1st surname and Mother's 1st Surname) and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_name (looks more varied)
I have also been looking at Russian (possibly Slavic) Surnames which depend on gender (e.g. Tchaikovsky (m) / Tchaikovskaya (f) )

If FH wants to appear International it needs to be less Anglo-centric and I would not want the current ability to handle Patrilineal surnames removed, so it means thinking about what can be realistically done as options. Family trees are spreading and are no longer as mono-cultural as they used to be!

Possible options - in no particular order at the moment.

1. Options extended from current None or Patrilineal to include Matrilineal (rare but logically easy to program!)
2. If only one parent is known, child to take that parent's surname by default (handle "English illegitimacy")
3. "Inherit to descendents Ancestors" If I have a child Simon Jones in my FT and I add a father, can't we default the father's surname (if option is set to Patrilineal) to Jones?
4. Options to be set at family level and then inherited down. So if someone from a Patrilineal society marries into a society which has a different convention, to be able to set the default (from current options) to None and for that to apply to all descendents until changed.
5. Where on marriage a couple change their name - the Name Type in V7 can indicate that this is a matrimonial name; an option to ensure this is used for the children? Could handle English and American double barrelling and some non English patterns - but need to ensure you pick up the Married Name that matches the couple! A custom fact on the FAM record?
6. If the variety of endings are not too large, an ability to handle the Tchaikovsky (m) / Tchaikovskaya (f) tyep example.

I know our current user base is predominantly Anglo-Saxon, so for many this may seem like a minor issue, but for those who may be drawn to become new users, it and a few other "Internationalisation" issues, are possibly more important.

So if we are looking at what happens when a new child is added via the Property Box, currently the father's surname is carried down (unless that option is switched off) - this is convenient for those of us that have Patrilineal surnames.

For those who have non-Anglo-Saxon Family Trees - or have branches that cross cultural boundaries, what sort of "conveniences" (in this particular area) could be built in to make FH more attractive as a prospective purchase for Non-Anglo-Saxons? Any of the above bullet points worth thinking though - or are there other areas that also need thinking about?

[davidf]

Trying to add some structure to what may become one or more wish list items.

The overall requirement is to be able to offer a "default surname" on "Add Child" for cultures other than Patrilineal ones. This offers more functionality to a wider range of potential users and possibly helps from a marketing point of view by making the product appear less Anglo-entric.

Currently the default behaviour is controlled by a check box: Insert father's surname when creating children.

V6 Preferences for default surnames

Screenshot from 2022-07-06 11-29-00.png (9.13 KiB) Viewed 688 times

A. Basic Changes - to enable others

1. If the current behaviour is changed to a pull-down list, the current options would be:

• None - equivalent of unchecked
• Patrilineal - equivalent of what we have at the moment

It is then relatively easy to contemplate further options

2. If this behaviour can be set at family level we can then potentially handle the situation when an individual marries into a family with different surnaming practices. So for instance whilst most of a project follows the Patrilineal convention descendents of that couple might follow a different convention ("None" under current choices)

3. Bi-directional. If Patrilineal is specified, why when we add a father, can't the father's surname default to that of his first child? For other possible options it may also be possible to define "back in time" defaults for parents subsequently entered.

B. Options then available

We can then consider other options. For instance:

1. Repeat. A useful extra option could be:

• None - equivalent of unchecked
• Patrilineal - equivalent of what we have at the moment
• Repeat - for subsequent children use the same surname as the first (or previous?) child.

This gives a half-way house for more complicated naming conventions (for instance double barrelling - you manually edit the surname of the first child and subsequent children take the same surname by default)

2. Matrilineal

• None - equivalent of unchecked
• Patrilineal - equivalent of what we have at the moment
• Matrilineal - insert mother's surname
• Repeat - for subsequent children use the same surname as the first (or previous?) child.

An unreferenced comment in the Wikipedia article on Spanish Naming practises says:

Patrilineal surname transmission was not always the norm in Spanish-speaking societies. Prior to the mid-eighteenth century,[citation needed] when the current paternal-maternal surname combination norm was adopted, Hispanophone societies often practised matrilineal surname transmission, giving children the maternal surname and ...

3. Handling Illegitimacy in Patrilineal Cultures

• None - equivalent of unchecked
• Patrilineal - equivalent of what we have at the moment
• Patrilineal+ - but use mother's surname if father is unknown
• Matrilineal - insert mother's surname
• Repeat - for subsequent children use the same surname as the first (or previous?) child.

This would handle the situation that arises in Patrilineal cultures when children are born illegitimately.

Others

Other options can be specified but are likely to be more complex. There is a balance to be struck - probably by Calico Pie rather than us - between

• the hassle and cost of development, and
• the attractiveness of the option which depends on:
  • The size of the market - for instance the Spanish Speaking World is one of the leading language groups
  • How homogenous a group is - do they always (or nearly always) use a particular surnaming convention
  • How applicable an option would be - to be of use does it have to handle lots of complications or is a basic option of significant utility

We could for instance end up with options like this:

• None - equivalent of unchecked
• Patrilineal - equivalent of what we have at the moment
• Patrilineal+ - but use mother's surname if father is unknown
• Matrilineal - insert mother's surname
• Spanish A - Father's 1st Surname Mother's 1st Surname
• Other Patterns ...
• Repeat - for subsequent children use the same surname as the first (or previous?) child.

[davidf]

I have started a thread on Spanish Naming and Surnaming - as applied to the "Add a child" issue (with some possible issues over identifying Surname Prefixes).

I have done this as a separate thread deliberately to try and attract people who have experience of using Spanish Names in a genealogical context.

it can hopefully help to generally inform the viability of specifying additional Surnaming Conventions in the context of the Add a Child functionality.

[AdrianBruce]

I suspect that the option of "Repeat - for subsequent children use the same surname as the first (or previous?) child" could be a fairly simple step that would cover a lot of ground, with no need to tackle clever stuff about encoding naming practices. I'd suggest "same as the previous child" to cover possible issues where the eldest in a family is actually a step-child with a different surname. It's all about defaults that ease matters, rather than providing a 100% solution, so if the previous child were a step-child, well, the user would just over-write that default.