* Auto-Create Note

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ColinMc
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Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 16:32

I 've created an Auto-Create Note for my Emigration Fact. As a part of it, I had a "Note: " line, (I thought it would be easier inside the Auto Create Note rather than having a separate {note} entry afterwards)

As far as I can see, this is being truncated at around 500 characters. I can't firm up on the number of characters yet as it seems it may not count spaces and some/all punctuation.

I did leave the separate {note} in the Sentence text as well - just in case - so this is easily resolved by moving the note text outside the Auto-Create Note, but I just wanted to check that something else eg the amount of characters in other items in the AutoCreate note might be causing an issue, although it does not seem that that example has any impact.

The Help file does not mention any limit that I can see, and I haven't found anything in the Forum

Anyone else come across this?

Luckily, if I am right, I have already identified all those facts with Auto Create definitions which include a note.
Colin McDonald - Researching McDonald, McGillivray, Tait, Rountree families

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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 20 Jan 2022 16:51

I believe the local Note field of any Fact is completely unlimited in length.

I suspect you are talking out the local Note being displayed in some way such as in a Report, a Diagram, or a Query.
That is a long-established scenario, and nothing specifically to do with Auto-Create Note, nor indeed just Note fields but applies to all long text fields including Text From Source. However, the truncation is usually much less than 500 characters.
Please provide some more context of where you see the truncation.

See FHUG KB Display long text such as Notes that may help.
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ColinMc
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 17:08

Sorry, I did not make that clear at all, I'm seeing it in the Sentence box
ACN.jpg
ACN.jpg (179.83 KiB) Viewed 1255 times
If I copy and paste that same note, and place it outside the [[ ]], then in the Sentence Box, the original note is still truncated but the more traditional {note} entry appears as expected in full.
ACN 2.jpg
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 20 Jan 2022 17:22

I need to borrow Helen's crystal ball :D
What is your Sentence Template expression?
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 17:26

I need to borrow Helen's crystal ball :D
I thought it was out for repair!


{individual} emigrated< from {%FACT.PLAC:SHORT%}>< on the {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Line: " )} Line>< aboard the {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Ship: ")}>< {date}>< {age}><, with {other=principal,Emigrant}> arriving< in {=GetFieldText(%FACT%,"%~._PLAC:SHORT%")}>< on {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Arrival Date: ")}><, travelling in {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Class: ")} class>.< The ship's Captain was {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Captain: ")}.>< {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Note: ")}.> {note}
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 20 Jan 2022 17:44

ColinMc wrote:
20 Jan 2022 17:26
I need to borrow Helen's crystal ball :D
I thought it was out for repair!
William pointed me to a very helpful online repair service. 'twas a bit tricky crossing the repairer's palm with silver, but PayPal was an adequate substitute.

Trouble is, now it keeps tuning in to Radio 1, and I can't be doing with that modern music...

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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by RS3100 » 20 Jan 2022 17:51

I have a custom "Misc" fact that I use for several purposes, and often alter the sentence template to suit a particular use. In one instance I have just checked, the fact relates to the history of the Short Blue Fleet which my GF sailed in. I replaced the sentence template with the single code {note} and the entire text is within the note field. I've just checked it, and it is 5,391 characters in length. There is no truncation in reports. I've just checked the contents of the sentence box, and the entire text appears in full there also.

Could the inclusion of privacy brackets in the note text be a factor? I did report some formatting problems to CP, where notes contained privacy brackets, that were fixed in the last release or the one prior to that, I can't recall which now. I've since reported issues with bold and italic text within privacy brackets not always appearing correctly in reports, which has been passed to the developers for a (hopefully) future fix.

What happens if you remove the privacy brackets from the note field entirely?

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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 20 Jan 2022 18:08

The {note} code never truncates the text.
I suspect it is the {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Note: ")} function that is truncating the text despite that it says in the FHUG KB Display long text such as Notes that function does NOT truncate long text.
It may be that function was never checked with long enough text or it has changed in FH v7.
Anyway, you could try complaining to CP about the truncation caused by the =GetlabelledText(...) function.

I would be interested but surprised if removing the [[ privacy brackets ]] makes any difference.
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by RS3100 » 20 Jan 2022 18:27

tatewise wrote:
20 Jan 2022 18:08
I would be interested but surprised if removing the [[ privacy brackets ]] makes any difference.
You may well be correct Mike. I only mentioned it because the issues I originally reported included carriage returns or blank lines within notes enclosed in privacy brackets causing unwanted blank lines or additional space between paragraphs in reports, and additional spaces between words or at the start of new paragraphs where a note within privacy brackets was attached to the associated fact.

I demonstrated it to CP to the extent that they could reproduce it. After investigation, they told me that it only occurred in circumstances where a note enclosed in privacy brackets was attached to one of several particular fact types, or a sequence of certain fact types were attached to an individual in a particular order. In any event, it was fixed.

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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 18:28

Trouble is, now it keeps tuning in to Radio 1, and I can't be doing with that modern music...

Can't argue with that...
Last edited by ColinMc on 20 Jan 2022 18:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 18:31

RS3100 wrote:
20 Jan 2022 17:51
What happens if you remove the privacy brackets from the note field entirely?
Removing the brackets does resolve the truncation. (but of course it would not be a usable solution)

PS never heard of the Short Blue Fleet, but a Google search soon explained it!
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 18:32

tatewise wrote:
20 Jan 2022 18:08
I suspect it is the {=GetlabelledText(%FACT.NOTE2%,"Note: ")} function that is truncating the text despite that it says in the FHUG KB Display long text such as Notes that function does NOT truncate long text.
It may be that function was never checked with long enough text or it has changed in FH v7.
Anyway, you could try complaining to CP about the truncation caused by the =GetlabelledText(...) function.
Thanks for confirming the problem. I'll see what CP say.
Colin McDonald - Researching McDonald, McGillivray, Tait, Rountree families

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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 20 Jan 2022 18:36

Include the fact that the =GetlabelledText(...) fault is dependent on the [[ privacy brackets ]]
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 20 Jan 2022 18:38

Thanks, I have done so


PS how do you ever manage to do any of your own research?
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 20 Jan 2022 18:41

Infrequently :lol:

The discussions here are often more interesting and challenging, as I have found most of my nearest relative's details and now digging into the outer reaches is somehow less rewarding.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by davidf » 20 Jan 2022 18:47

tatewise wrote:
20 Jan 2022 18:36
Include the fact that the =GetlabelledText(...) fault is dependent on the [[ privacy brackets ]]
I'm slightly surprised that GetlabelledText does not "honour" the privacy brackets!
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 20 Jan 2022 20:05

I'm not sure what you mean davidf.
Are you suggesting that it should not return anything?
[[private text]] is not unconditionally invisible but dependent on conditions which can include it or hide it and optionally remove the brackets. So what do mean by "honour" the brackets?
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by davidf » 20 Jan 2022 22:25

I interpret data within [[ ]] as being "private" and hence not displayed in reports and diagrams. That a formula can extract and display this information does not seem to honour the privacy of the data within [[ ]] - could even have data protection implications.
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 21 Jan 2022 10:35

Don't read too much into the word private.
It simply means the text can be optionally included or excluded.
All Reports and Diagrams have an option to Inc. [[private]] Notes.

In the case of this thread the [[private]] brackets have a very specific purpose.
They enclose labelled text so it is not included with any other Note text via the {note} code or Notes options in Reports.
That explicitly allows =GetLabelledText(...) functions to conditionally interleave the labelled text with other wording in the Sentence Template as illustrated in the template posted by ColinMc earlier.
If the [[private]] brackets were "honoured" it would completely nullify the whole purpose of those labelled texts.
The concept is further explained in Narrative Report Fact Sentence Templates under Custom Fact Fields, which describes how to add non-standard fields to Facts.
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by AdrianBruce » 21 Jan 2022 13:18

davidf wrote:
20 Jan 2022 22:25
... That a formula can extract and display this information does not seem to honour the privacy of the data within [[ ]] - could even have data protection implications.
Yes - remember that the whole GEDCOM file, "private" text included, is in a text file visible in Notepad etc, etc. As Mike indicates, this is a different context of "Private".
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by davidf » 21 Jan 2022 15:00

I still feel uneasy about this!

Private has some sort of meaning as being "private" as in "should not be public"; double square bracketing inhibits the enclosed information from appearing in "published" form (diagrams, reports and other FH outputs) - so why should a function circumvent that control?

It's almost as if the telephone banking teller had a "special function" which they could use to read banking information about me that had been marked as "private" by the bank!

Possibly "Private" is not the right word?
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by tatewise » 21 Jan 2022 15:10

The flaw in your argument is the claim that "double square bracketing inhibits the enclosed information from appearing in "published" form".
As I said earlier, it is a user's choice, as all Reports and Diagrams have an option to Inc. [[private]] Notes.
So user's can choose to use the [[private]] feature in whatever way they wish (just like all other FH features).
The =GetLabelledText(...) function allows user's to "circumvent control" in the same way that Inc. [[private]] Notes does.

See FH Help Page Private Notes that illustrates them using [[secret text]]. Interestingly, it refers to them being supported in the Address field, but in Addresses and commas after house numbers. (20220) Lorna pointed out that Inc. [[private]] Notes is not applied to Address fields in Diagrams. So perhaps that is a bug?
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by davidf » 21 Jan 2022 15:53

tatewise wrote:
21 Jan 2022 15:10
Interestingly, it refers to them being supported in the Address field, but in Addresses and commas after house numbers. (20220) Lorna pointed out that Inc. [[private]] Notes is not applied to Address fields in Diagrams. So perhaps that is a bug?
If that is present in V7 (as well as V6), I think it is a "bug" in that it is "an anomaly" that cannot claim to be "a feature".
tatewise wrote:
21 Jan 2022 15:10
See FH Help Page Private Notes that illustrates them using [[secret text]]. Interestingly, it refers to them being supported in the Address field, but in Addresses and commas after house numbers. (20220) Lorna pointed out that Inc. [[private]] Notes is not applied to Address fields in Diagrams. So perhaps that is a bug?
I think the wording in the help is ambiguous!

You seem to be interpreting the square brackets not as [[secret text]] but as [[researcher's internal notes]]. CP's example "he limped as a result of a [[self-inflicted]] war wound" would be more "secret" than "internal" as it was being marked to prevent accidental publication.

My concern is more around the potential for inadvertent disclosure of something that was not intended for publication.

You might have a tree with lots of data about illegitimacy, affairs, self-inflicted wounds, suicide etc that you do not want published.

I have a relative who committed suicide; I have not listed that as the cause - I have used the obfuscation in the death certificate. But suppose in the note field I had listed:
[[actual cause: suicide]] and then saw a great new text scheme that someone had put in the downloads area that handled relationships really well and I installed it and started to use it? Or even created such a text scheme myself to enable publication of "cause of death" behind the obfuscation of the "medical cause" - forgetting about this one relative's suicide?

I know I should check through every line of every thing I download, but suppose I did not or missed the clever use of =GetlabelledText(...) to lift "actual cause" from the fact note?

The help implies that the square brackets can inhibit information like "[[self-inflicted]] war wound" from publication. If =GetlabelledText is working as intended then perhaps there is an inconsistency with the naming and help file explanation of the square brackets that should be reported as a bug.
Last edited by davidf on 21 Jan 2022 16:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by AdrianBruce » 21 Jan 2022 15:59

davidf wrote:
21 Jan 2022 15:00
... Possibly "Private" is not the right word?
It certainly conveys the idea that there are two actors in the use cases involving [[ ... ]] - whereas there aren't - there's only one. Really, it's more like: "Stuff I can easily inhibit in outputs". ( I never was much good at being succinct. )

Once you get into, say, web-sites generated from FH, then it's all different - but then the logic handling [[ ... ]] might be nothing whatsoever to do with FH.
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Re: Auto-Create Note

Post by ColinMc » 24 Jan 2022 14:13

CP have acknowledged my request on truncation as follows:
OK thank you for reporting that. We have logged it for further investigation.
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