* Main Tab Configuration

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Mike Davies
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Main Tab Configuration

Post by Mike Davies » 04 May 2021 14:24

Hi all, recently I've added Probate and Marriage Banns to the Main Tab on the Property Box. I would also like to add Birth Registration, Marriage Registration and Death Registration to give date and place of registration. I cant seem to be able to create these. Is it possible and if so can someone guide me through the process
Many Thanks
Mike Davies

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 04 May 2021 14:52

Do you have separate facts recorded for each of those registrations?

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tatewise
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 04 May 2021 16:04

Mike, it is essentially the same process as adding Probate and Marriage Banns.
If you untick Show most commonly-used items only your Birth Registration, Marriage Registration and Death Registration facts should be listed as Available Items, which when added will automatically add their Date and Place.

It would help us to understand your problem if you explained what commands you have tried unsuccessfully.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Mike Davies
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by Mike Davies » 05 May 2021 11:07

Hi Mike I cannot find separate birth marriage and death registrations just registration. Do I add it three times and change name?
Lorna I usually find say the GRO death registration eg Williton Somerset and enter details in the death entry space subsequently to find that in his Probate Record he actually died in Luccombe Somerset and change the Death Record accordingly and copy the transcription of the GRO death record into notes. I would like to have both in the main tab. Hope this is clear.
Thanks Mike Davies

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 05 May 2021 11:32

Helen asked earlier "Do you have separate facts recorded for each of those registrations?"
It sounds as if the answer is "No" and you only have one Registration fact type defined.
So presumably, you have several similar Registration facts entered against each person: one for Birth, one or more for Marriage, and one for Death. It is only the Date and Place that differs for each fact.
If that is the case, then it is impossible to differentiate one Registration fact from another.
All you can do is list the first 3 or 4 Registration facts on the Main tab, but it won't be obvious which is Birth, Marriage, or Death.

To answer your question regarding Death Registration versus Probate Record, we need to understand more about how you record Source Citations against Facts.
In the case of death details it sounds like you record a Death Event, Death Registration event, and a Probate Event.
The separate source documents might include Death Registration Index, Death Certificate, and Probate Record.
So each would probably have a separate Source record with various Citations against those three facts and maybe others.
The Source record would include the Text From Source transcription and maybe a Media image of the document.

To try and present too many of those details on the Main tab may be making it too complex.
Usually, to inspect that much detail involves using the Facts tab and reviewing the separate facts and citations.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Mike Davies
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by Mike Davies » 05 May 2021 20:09

Hi Helen & Mike thanks for your replies, I use Ancestral Sources almost exclusively in entering all my information found. Mainly for Census, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials. If I find a Birth or Death certificate I also use the Birth and Death Entries on A S.
For other things like Probate record, Gravestone, Newspaper article etc I use the create a source tool. When I find a GRO record for Birth, Marriage or Death I just enter the year and place in the appropriate boxes on the main tab, and copy the transcription into the person's note so that I can order a certificate, should I wish to, at a later date.
What I would like to have Birth Box giving exact date and place of birth and below a Birth Registration Box where the date is more vague and the place often completely different, and likewise for Marriage and Death.
I hope this explains this more adequately.
Thanks Mike Davies

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 05 May 2021 21:29

Just in case you don't know, most boxes on the Main tab are NOT independent data items.
Mostly they are a summary of the underlying data, mainly facts, that are shown on the Facts tab.
When you enter data in the Born or Died date & place boxes on the Main tab you are actually creating a Birth Event or Death Event that is shown on the Facts tab, and similarly for Marriage Events.

So the only way you can have Birth/Death/Marriage Registration data on the Main tab is by having matching Birth/Death/Marriage Registration custom facts on the Facts tab. So you need to start by defining those custom facts via the Tools > Fact Types... dialogue then they would appear in the Customize Property Box dialogue, which is where we started answering your question yesterday.

BTW: That is not the way that most users capture Birth Registration and subsequent specific Birth Event details.
Usually, the GRO Birth Index is captured as a Source Citation much like you do for other information, but against the standard Birth Event. When say a Birth Certificate is obtained that is added as another Source Citation and the Birth Event details updated, but the GRO Birth Index citation is still present and holds the 'vague' details in the Source Citation.

However, if you wish to continue with the BMD Registration custom facts we can give more detailed instructions if required.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Mike Davies
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by Mike Davies » 06 May 2021 09:43

Thanks Mike for your usual detailed reply. I've experimented with creating the custom Birth Registration Fact and it seems to give me what I want in the main tab but there are so many boxes to be filled in that I would appreciate guidance as to the correct method.
I've taken on board the advice about GRO registration and will amend my method. Is there a template for doing this or can I use the tabs in AS for it?
Thanks once again.
Mike

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 06 May 2021 10:27

I am somewhat confused by your posting.

If you are planning to amend your method for GRO Index registration along the lines I advised then you will have no use for custom BMD Registration Facts, because the GRO Index registration Source Citations will only apply to the standard Birth, Marriage & Death events.

When you talk about a 'template' for GRO Indexes I don't think you mean FH v7 Source Templates.
The GRO Index Source Citations are so simple that there is no need to use AS or a 'template'.
Check the Family Historian Sample Project that has GRO Birth Index, GRO Marriage Index & GRO Death Index source records.
Review their Citations that simply record the GRO Index Reference in the Where Within Source field.
So for a Birth Event, use Add Source Citation > Cite Existing Source... to select GRO Birth Index and enter the GRO Index district, volume, page, etc, into the Where Within Source field and the registration date into the Entry Date field.

With that approach, do you still need BMD Registration Facts on the Main tab and how will you use them on the Facts tab?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by NickWalker » 06 May 2021 10:49

Just to reinforce Mike's suggestion...

I just have a single source in Family Historian for GRO Indexes (but could equally have 3 for the 3 types). Then if all I have is a Birth registration record (for example) then I just create a birth fact with the date (e.g. Q3 1890) and put the GRO reference in the local note for the birth fact and select the GRO Index as the source. These act as a placeholder for me (possibly for years or decades or forever) which may eventually be replaced by a full record (created in AS of course!) when I get a certificate.
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 06 May 2021 11:04

Just to add to that...

The 'vague' Quarter Date (e.g. Q3 1890) is the strong clue in the Main tab Born date that it is a GRO Index registration.
You could also put 'Registration District' and its name in the Place field as a further clue.

When the Birth Event gets updated via AS with the Birth Certificate exact Date and Place, the GRO Index details are superfluous but are usually included in the Birth Certificate Source Citation or retained in the GRO Birth Index Source Citation.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by NickWalker » 06 May 2021 15:14

tatewise wrote:
06 May 2021 11:04
When the Birth Event gets updated via AS with the Birth Certificate exact Date and Place, the GRO Index details are superfluous but are usually included in the Birth Certificate Source Citation or retained in the GRO Birth Index Source Citation.
Actually usually they are not retained, unless you choose the option to retain them.
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 06 May 2021 15:32

If they are not retained doesn't that make obtaining another copy of the Birth Certificate rather more difficult?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but if somebody else needs a copy I thought they needed the District, Volume, Page, etc, details to be sure they get the correct person's certificate.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by NickWalker » 06 May 2021 16:48

I feel like I'm having to work hard to defend something that I think AS does a good job with - it offers to replace the fact or create an additional one and it allows you to retain existing citations/images/notes/witnesses if you wish.
Replace Fact.JPG
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by ColeValleyGirl » 06 May 2021 16:55

I agree with Nick -- AS does a good job with this.

Also, you don't necessarily need all those details to get a certificate -- a local register office can't use GRO reference numbers. And the GRO can work with:

Year birth was registered
Surname at birth *
Forename(s) *
Date of birth (dd/mm/yyyy)*
(If you do not know the exact date enter 01/01/xxxx, we will search the specified year and one either side)
Place of birth*

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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 06 May 2021 18:03

Alright. Alright. I over generalised, but this is straying away from the OP topic who seems to want to keep GRO Index and exact Birth details and show them all on the Main tab!
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Mike Davies
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by Mike Davies » 07 May 2021 09:07

Thank you both for your replies. Am I right in thinking that this is a "lumper" approach to recording GRO entries and that images of the record would have to attached to the individuals media tab? I would still like to have the separate registration boxes as the two places so often vary by some distance in rural areas
This is what I'm trying to achieve Image as so often I find a record of a GRO event first and then more details from say a baptism entry or in my case above a birth certificate. So at a glance I can see all the relevant detail on the main tab.
Once again thanks for all your help
Mike Davies
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NickWalker
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by NickWalker » 07 May 2021 09:12

I wouldn't bother with the image as it's not an image of a 'real source' (if you know what I mean) and doesn't give you any more information than just recording the reference ID in the local note. Yes this is a 'lumper' (method 2) approach which seems most appropriate for registration records as they just lead to one fact and one citation for each registration.
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by tatewise » 07 May 2021 09:18

If you wish to attach images for GRO BMD Index pages then either use 'splitter' Method 1 and attach them to the Source record, or with 'lumper' Method 2 attach them to the Citation itself. Both options are available via the FH v7 Citation Window.
As Nick says, many users don't bother with those images as they add very little information.

I'm still not clear why you need the Registration 'vague' details after you have obtained the exact Birth Date & Place.
Surely it is one or the other. You only need the Registration Date & District until you have obtained the exact details, and then they are of no further interest.

However, to achieve what you have posted in your screenshot you will have to have to add the Birth Registration fact to the Facts tab with a GRO Birth Index Source Citation. Do you understand that and are you happy with that technique?
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Mike Davies
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Re: Main Tab Configuration

Post by Mike Davies » 07 May 2021 09:26

Thanks both for your replies I’m clear now on how to proceed with this and will record the registrations separately because sometimes this is the only evidence I have of a birth and can confuse when finding a more specific place of birth say in a census.
Thanks both brilliant advice as always
Mike Davies

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