* How to enter and link different names for same city?

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Tibor Duliskovich
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How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Tibor Duliskovich » 24 Jun 2020 18:53

I have an issue where a particular region in Europe changed hands multiple times during WWI and WWII, plus cities have been named differently in different languages. I would like to record name of the city the way it was at the time of event it is linked to, in foreign language, with the link to country (always another country). If I understand the Places correctly, this will create a new place each time, but I want them be one, with all the variations in the name/country/language of spelling, one or linked together, so that proper reference is called when exported.

How do I do that? I did read the other Places hints and am using the latest FH, but am a brand new user.

Thank you,
Tibor

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LornaCraig
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by LornaCraig » 24 Jun 2020 19:35

Hello, welcome to FHUG.

You will need to create a separate Place record for each different name, but in the main tab of the Property box for each Place record you can use the 'Standardized' field to record the modern name. This will then be used for geocoding, and all the variations will be located in the same place on the map.
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by tatewise » 24 Jun 2020 19:40

The Place name recorded in a Fact is linked to a Place record with the same name and that cannot be changed.

Each Place record has a Standardized field in which you can put the modern Place name so that it is automatically geocoded to the correct grid reference, or you can enter the grid Lat/Long reference by hand.

If all the Place records with the old names have the same Standardized field and Lat/Long reference then they are the same place.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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AdrianBruce
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by AdrianBruce » 24 Jun 2020 21:56

Yes, strictly speaking, the Place records are actually Place-Name records.
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Tibor Duliskovich
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Tibor Duliskovich » 25 Jun 2020 02:08

Thank you all for helpful recommendations. If I understood this correctly, it will be the coordinates that will link these places, right? I would create six variants of the city name and I manually geocode them to same coordinates (or is there a way to copy and paste the coordinates, so they are exact?) and by doing so they become cross-referenced? Or should I enter each of the variants into each entry's note field, so I could find the other entries later? Is it possible to link a place to a date range, e.g. it was called ABC from 1940 to 1945, and DEF from 1946 to 1956? I also saw someone's recommendation to create a source record for each city and link that instead to place to the fact itself. I just don't know the advantages and limitations of each approach. As I am starting to enter a lot of data I collected over the years I want to do this correctly. I don't mind geocoding each location manually or creating duplicate records if needed.

Thank you again for your advice!
Tibor

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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by AdrianBruce » 25 Jun 2020 09:26

This is what I do in cases of changing place-names:-
Annotation 2020-06-25 101213.jpg
Annotation 2020-06-25 101213.jpg (51.95 KiB) Viewed 603 times
The above shows the property box for one particular place-record. The Place item is what I've previously entered against an event. I can then go into the place-record and set Standardized to today's place-name. When I do the geocoding, the routine uses Standardized (if it's present) in preference to the Place to work out the co-ordinates.

So in the cases of multiple place-names over time, I'd have the multiple place-(name)-records, each with the same Standardized. It's having the same Standardized that links them together in my way. Then the geocoding will work across the board - assuming you're using some sort of automated geo-coding process. Otherwise just copy and paste the Lat/Long.

I suspect that the only way of adding the dates is in the Note for the place and this could also link the different place-names in the text - same note for each variant name maybe? Depends what you find useful to put in those notes.

I find it easier to link the place-names through the Standardized name because I can read that easier than co-ordinates!

Actually I've just read my own note and Grahamstown isn't the current name for Albany, it's actually the administrative centre of a district that doesn't geocode these days - so not the best example that I could have chosen, but the essential principle holds of place and standard version.
Adrian

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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Gowermick » 25 Jun 2020 11:15

Tibor Duliskovich wrote:
25 Jun 2020 02:08
(or is there a way to copy and paste the coordinates, so they are exact?)
If you open the property box for the place, (as in Adrian’s post), you can highlight the contents of the Lat./Long. field then copy them.
Go to through each place you want to be the same , and Paste into Lat./Long. field.
i.e Copy and paste works as you would expect in this field.
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by tatewise » 25 Jun 2020 11:34

For such techniques to work reliably it is important to change some default settings in FH as follows:-
Use Tools > Preferences > Map Window and set Mark auto-geocodes as Tentative if: to Always.
Then tick Block Refresh for Non-tentative Geocodes.

Thus any Lat/Long values you set manually will be non-tentative and won't get upset by auto-geocoding.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Tibor Duliskovich
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Tibor Duliskovich » 25 Jun 2020 23:04

Thank you for the clarifications. The solution linking places by standardized name (and possibly in addition manually geocoding them just to make sure) and utilizing notes field to enter the name variations - this should work for now. At least all those references would not be lost and they would be exported OK. I did change my preferences as suggested and made a note so not to forget what I changed from default and why.

Is there any advantage of the other method - creating a source record for the city and then linking that to the events directly? Supposedly source record is more flexible than a place record. Or maybe linking both - the place record to be able to geocode and a source record to have history on the city - to the event record? Am I overthinking this?

Thank you,
Tibor

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LornaCraig
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by LornaCraig » 26 Jun 2020 09:44

Creating a Source record for the city would be a useful addition, but not an alternative, to a Place record. There will always be a Place record associated with the event unless you leave the place field completely blank, but if you did that the place name would not appear in reports and, as you say, there would be no geocoding.

The choice of method depends on how you want to present the information. Notes from a Place record don't appear in reports. However the text from the Source record can optionally be included in the Sources section at the end of reports. Another option would be to copy and paste the same information into the Note field of the event, so that it appears within the main body of a report. (We understand that the new FH version 7 which is due out later this year will have new report features which might affect the decision).
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by tatewise » 26 Jun 2020 10:05

Whatever solution you choose for holding your data, it is advisable to review how it may appear in Reports and Diagrams.
That advice applies to any slightly unusual data and not just place names.

Another consideration is that Source records are a standard GEDCOM feature that will invariably export to other products. Whereas Place records are a non-standard GEDCOM extension that will only export to the few other products that support a similar extension. However, the Export Gedcom File Plugin mitigates that problem by converting Place records into Source records where necessary depending on the target product.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Tibor Duliskovich
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Tibor Duliskovich » 27 Jun 2020 02:07

Thank you very much again for your time and advice. I will experiment with diagrams and reports, but first need to enter at least a few dozen individuals with all the details. I will try to create individuals with different ways of recording the place information, then export and see what happens. Onto the next step, actually trying to use the software!

Have a relaxing weekend,
Tibor

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Mark1834
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Mark1834 » 28 Jun 2020 11:37

Nobody has mentioned it specifically in this discussion, but presumably using the “standardized” place name is the recommended method to deal with the issue we have all come across where county names in particular change over time? For example, Middlesex/Surrey/Kent vs London, Lancashire vs Merseyside, Rutland vs Cambridgeshire etc.
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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by tatewise » 28 Jun 2020 13:15

Standardized has been mentioned 9 times in that context in this thread and is designed exactly for the purpose of mapping old place names to modern place names.

The FH Help page for Property Box: Main Tab for Place Records says:
Standardized
Auto-geocoding (see the MapWindow to learn more about geocoding) is normally based on the Place field. However, if the Standardized field is not blank, geocoding will be based on it instead. Some historical names may not be recognised, or may be incorrectly geocoded. In this situation, you can either simply specify the correct latitude and longitude yourself; or you can supply a modern, standardized name which will be correctly geocoded.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: How to enter and link different names for same city?

Post by Mark1834 » 28 Jun 2020 14:39

Indeed it has, but I was clarifying that the same process is appropriate for a relatively minor change to name. It may be "obvious" to regular contributors here that identity of place is based on the full name in whatever detail is entered, but not everybody will necessarily pick up that point. I'm remembering the various pratfalls I've made in the past regarding consistent recording of locations....
Mark Draper

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