* How to delete undefined data

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USMC7312
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How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

Correct me if I am wrong but in the Fact Dialog Box, when you select events/attributes that are “undefined” it creates a new event/attribute but leaves the old fact. So after review my facts that were imported, I now want to delete that data one fact at a time.

How do I do this?
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by tatewise »

I guess you are talking about the Tools > Fact Types dialogue with Show Hidden ticked.
Any imported facts that have no Fact Type definition are shown as <undefined> in the Visible column.
If you click the Edit button it will offer to create a definition that matches the fact, thus there is nothing left to delete, so I don't understand the problem.

If you have used New to create a new definition then that may not match the Event/Attribute facts in your data.

However, if you select any Event/Attribute there is a Delete button in the panel on the right.

FactTypes.png
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

No I got that and it works on some fields, but others will just go back to being UDF after I delete it.
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

Yeah, so very strange. Sometimes when I convert the UDF fact it creates a fact as expected. Then when I delete the fact, the UDF field returns.

To delete the UDF field, I have to delete every instance. Then I can delete the field. Is that they expected behavior?
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by tatewise »

The first thing to recognise is that Fact Type definitions do not change your fact data in anyway.
The definitions only affect how your fact data is displayed, but can never alter UDF.
Many UDF will not be at the fact level anyway, but are some other data structure.
I hope by now you realise that those UDF are GEDCOM custom extensions used by RM7 but not recognised by FH.

I cannot understand your description of the problem, so some screenshots would help.

Hopefully you are following the how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Uncategorised Data Fields (UDF) guide.
If so, which part of that guide are you trying to use?
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

Is it safe to use the 2 checkbox approach (see attached image) to delete all UDF once you convert the UDF fields to recognized fields or if I do this does it delete all the data too.
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by tatewise »

The first thing I have to say is from your screenshot it is clear you are NOT running FH V6 despite in GEDCOM Exporting Data Does Not Contain Data Just Imported (17274) you say you just bought FH V6.
That screenshot looks like FH V5 because it has very different options and some major features are missing.
So the first thing to do before anything else is to upgrade to FH V6.2.7, otherwise it is difficult to advise how to use FH V5 that is at least 5 years old.

To check which version you have, use Help > About Family Historian. What version does that say?

This is what FH V6.2.7 should look like:

FileLoadSave.png
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

I took that screen shot from the instructions. Sorry. I am running 6.2.7. Attached are the proper screen shots.

Let me rephrase my question. The instructions see attached UDF.jpg file.

So if I go into the facts Property box and convert the UDF field into a custom recognized field. Can I enable the two features mentioned in the instructions and all the UDF data will be deleted from my file that has not been converted to custom fields. Furthermore, is this underlying data really converted or is it UDF still?
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by tatewise »

No, I should apologise, and will update those instructions at the earliest opportunity.

Yes, if you select the Exclude option and tick the Exclude fields that are not valid GEDCOM 5.5, then close and open FH, all UDF tags & associated data and subsidiary fields will be deleted when the GEDCOM file is loaded.
Use the Save button, or accept the Save popup when you close FH, to commit those deletions to the GEDCOM file.
Then remember to reset the preference settings back to Installation Settings.

What I don't understand is how you plan to use the Property Box to convert the UDF into custom recognized fields.
It is not possible to edit such UDF and change their tags in the Property Box.
The only options are those in the bullet list just below the blue arrow in your screenshot.
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

Again, General Patton, "We are two peoples separated by a common language..." Just joking...

Let me explain my process and you tell me what I have done wrong because I am sure I am not understanding something. I have gone through all my fields that said it was a UDF at this point, so I can't show you. I will use the Adoption Fact as an example, but it is not a UDF, just so we can be assured I am speaking of the same features.

1. Import gedcom created from Roots Magic 6.x into FH 6.2.7.
2. Blah.... Blah... Blah... Setup stuff....
3. Open Fields Dialog Box: Tools|Fact Types.
4. Click the Show Hidden box on the right.
5. Double Click a field that says it is a UDF. Click Create and set the Fact Set: Custom.
6. Fact Definition Property Box Gets Displayed.
7. Click Ok

Now this is what I call a UDF converted field.

At this point I have done this on all the fields that said they were UDF.

QUESTION
1. Once I have done this, are these fields now recognized and not considered UDF?
2. So when I go in and set the two options (See UDF Image in last post) by doing: Tools|Preferences|File/Load Save and enable
A. Other Applications GEDCOM Extensions "Excluded."
B. Exclude Fields that are not valid for GEDCOM 5.5
3. Click File|Save
4. Click File|Close

At this point will all my UDF data be removed with exception of the Fields that I converted as described above?

FURTHERMORE,

When I use the UDF List plugin it returns a recordset of 90K rows, it looks like my entire family tree?

The QUESTION I have because I am new to the FH product is this. Does FH import my GED and then correlate my data to Fields in FH? If the data is custom and not GEDCOM 5.5 recognized, it place this data aside as UDF. So is there basically a boatload of data in my FH file that is all UDF and then a separate set of data that was recognized or converted as described above? So is there basically two datasets: UDF and Recognized? When I delete the UDF data as described above, will the app only delete the UDF data while leaving the converted and recognized data alone?
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Re: How to delete undefined data

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OK, I think the first misunderstanding is the Tools > Fact Types dialogue is not the Property Box.
The Property Box dialogue is explained by the how_to:v4:property_dialogue_in_v4|> Property Box Dialogue Features video.
It is just like the Edit Person dialogue in RM7.

The second misunderstanding is to do with the Tools > Fact Types dialogue screenshot in my first posting earlier.
I think you are talking about the entries listed as <undefined> and highlighted yellow in that screenshot.
They are NOT UDF. They are perfectly valid custom facts that just have no Fact Type definition.
Those <undefined> facts are totally unaffected by the File Load exclude options discussed earlier.

Do NOT use the New button to create a new definition, but use the Edit button to define that existing custom fact.
That is exactly as explained in my first posting, but you seem to have skipped that.
These Fact Type definitions do NOT change anything in your Project GEDCOM file database.
They only define how those custom facts should be displayed in the Property Box and in Reports.
It is just like the Fact Types List in RM7 including Sentence Templates.

how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Uncategorised Data Fields (UDF) explains how UDF appear in the All tab of the Property Box with an asterisk bullet, and how to list them using a command and a Plugin. That will NOT list those <undefined> facts.
See how_to:import_from_roots_magic|> Import from RootsMagic (RM) that also mentions UDF and gives examples such as _UID, _TYPE, _SCBK & _PRIM that will appear in the All tab as * _UID, * _TYPE, etc.
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

I read the entire thread. I just misunderstood the overloaded terms. I think I got this now.

Question
1. What is the best way to delete the UDF data. I found the following data?
Custom ID
_AMTID
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Re: How to delete undefined data

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I did not think there were any overloaded terms, but the topic is quite complicated.
UDF means Uncategorised Data Field and is quite distinct from <undefined> facts.

Custom ID does not look like a UDF whereas _AMTID definitely is a UDF.
It would be best if you could attach a screenshot listing a sample of your UDF and roughly how many of each type.

To delete all UDF then the Tools > Preferences > File Load exclude options discussed earlier will work.

To selectively delete some UDF, look in how_to:handling_unrecognised_data_fields|> Handling Uncategorised Data Fields (UDF) and use the instructions following the first bullet list.
i.e. Run the UDF List Plugin, and in its Result Set select any from the first column labelled UDF Item, then press the Delete key or use Edit > Delete.
To select multiple UDF Item entries, use the normal Windows technique of holding down Ctrl or Shft keys while selecting.
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

I did not think there were any overloaded terms, but the topic is quite complicated.
UDF means Uncategorised Data Field and is quite distinct from <undefined> facts.
I saw this and thought they were same thing, but after learning more, I can now see the difference between UDF and “undefined.” These two are like wolves and dogs where wolves are UDFs and dogs are “undefined.” Dogs can at least be house broken and domesticated just like the conversion of “undefined” terms.

I appreciate the help. I keep going back to Patton’s Speech before the Normandy invasion in the UK.
We are two peoples separated by a common language
Seriously though, I have seen this problem more times then I care to admit. You folks in the UK speak English and most Americans are direct descendants but enough time has passed that the way we, Americans that is, comprehend what you guys in the UK are saying and vice versa, it is often really challenging to get the point.

I know, every PITA in the world will need to take exception. I am not saying this to insult and if it is a amen that way my apologies!
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by tatewise »

I think the difference is greater than that.
UDF are like foreign language words, and you don't know the language, so can't look them up in a dictionary.
<undefined> facts are like valid English/American words, but their definition is not in your dictionary, and that is fixed by adding an entry to your dictionary.

However, that does not get your UDF resolved, or are you happy to fix them on your own?
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by USMC7312 »

I feel the frustration in your message.

I got it all figured out now that I understand the difference. Problem Solved. Thanks for all the help...
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Re: How to delete undefined data

Post by tatewise »

Bon voyage ~ Merry Christmas ~ Happy New Year :D
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