* Shared Census Sentence

[Rusty]

I'm getting in a tangle again, I want to use the Family Census Fact and share it with the other people living in the house, I would like my sentence to read something like:- 'William Chilcott appeared in the census in the household of George Chilcott and Elizabeth Lawley on 6 June 1841in Moorfields, Saint George, Gloucestershire" but however much I tinker with the standard sentence I can't get it to read correctly. Also, what do I put in the two 'Role' type boxes, although I can see that one is 'past' and one 'present', that foxed me completely.

Can anyone help please both with the sentence and what I am expected to put in the 'Role' boxes.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thanks

[tatewise]

The Census (family) Event only applies to the Family couple, in the same way that Marriage and Divorce Events only apply to the Family couple.

So in your example, if the couple are George Chilcott and Elizabeth Lawley, who is William Chilcott?
What is his relationship?
How have you linked him into the Census (family) Event?

As happens too often, you have kept what you have tried to yourself, and thus made it more difficult for us to help!

What is the Sentence Template you have tried to use?

What are the two Roles you mention, because the default Census (family) Event has no Roles defined.

It is recommended that you do NOT use the Census (family) Event at all for the reasons given in how_to:recording_census_records|> Recording from a Census Record.

[Rusty]

Thanks for your reply Mike, sorry I'm not very good at explaining. George and Elizabeth are the parents, they have five children four of whom are mentioned on the 1841 Census (I don't use Ancestral Sources), so I've used the Census Family fact for George and Elizabeth then went to share the fact with the four children using the little cog wheel, which gives me the 'Witness' box, I then add the children which brings up the 'Edit Witness Details' box, from there I was asked to create a 'New Role Type' which foxed me as it seemed to want 'Role Type and Past Tense' and the word Census didn't seem to fit. I then get this sentence "{individual} was a {role name} at {label} of {principal} {date} {place}" which I tried to adapt to the way I wanted my sentence to read which is "William Chilcott appeared in the census in the household of George Chilcott and Elizabeth Lawley on 6 June 1841in Moorfields, Saint George, Gloucestershire".

Have I explained that better? Is what I am trying to do feasible? It just seemed to make more sense to keep all the people in the household grouped together.

Margaret

[tatewise]

Please read through the how_to:recording_census_records|> Recording from a Census Record.
I understand what you are trying to do, but it is not recommended, for the reasons give in that advice.

Whether it is feasible depends on what you expect to achieve.
An important consideration is where the Census (family) event appears in Diagrams and Reports.
In Diagrams it will usually only appear in the wife's box (like Marriage events) and it won't appear in any linked child boxes.
In Individual & Family Reports it appears in the Spouse or Family section for the parents, but never in the children's Reports.
It only appears correctly in Narrative Reports.

What are you going to do if the two parents are recorded at different addresses in the same Census, such as when the father is working away from home or on military service?
How are you going to deal with children who in some Census years are at home, but later are living on their own or with other family relatives?
What are you going to do if grandparents, parents, and children are all recorded at the same address?
Where do you expect to record the Age of each person as stated in the Census?

A consistent way to cope with all those scenarios is to give each person their own Individual Census event.
The household is grouped together by sharing the same Source Citation that captures the Census record.
That approach allows the Lookup Missing Census Plugin and Ancestral Sources to be used.
As a matter of interest, why are you not using Ancestral Sources?

The other method is to use the Individual Census event for the head of household, and then add everyone else as a Fact Witness using the predefined Resident Role. However, this still suffers from most of the drawbacks above.

[Rusty]

Thank you for all of that Mike, I really just wanted to keep households together but obviously my ideas aren't possible or feasible.

I've had a quick look at Ancestral Sources, with my record it seems as if I'll just have more questions to ask, but I'll think about giving it a go, it might actually be easier if I start everything all over again rather than tinker with what I have already.

Anyway Thank You Very Much for all your help so far. Don't go and hide as I'll probably be back

Margaret.

[tatewise]

Sorry Margaret, but I did propose two popular methods to keep households together.
It is simply that the Census (family) Event is infeasible in too many scenarios to be a recommended option.

One proposed method uses Fact Witnesses similar to your method, but it does have drawbacks, which you may be happy to live with. I just didn't want you coming back in the future saying that your Diagrams and Reports did not include all the Census details, or that some Plugins don't work.

[Rusty]

Thanks Mike, this afternoon I’m going to sit down and have a serious look at my file, it is in a muddle where I’ve tried out various things with varying success (or in my case failure!). I usually work from diagrams, but my boxes hold the minimum name and bmd dates and I rarely use plugins, So I think that it is back to basics for me with a complete rethink.

Thank you for everything so far.

Margaret.

[tatewise]

Census records are probably the most complex of all record types because one household typically yields so many Facts.
Not only the Census Events but also Occupation and Birth facts plus parent child relationships for everyone in the household. So for a family of husband, wife, and three children that can easily yield a dozen or more Facts.
They are far more complex than BMD Certifcates that typically only yield a few Facts each.
So it is important to capture Census records in a way that works for you.

If you usually work from Diagrams, then you will presumably want the boxes to show what Census Events have already been recorded for each person, as well as their BMD details. That is only feasible with an Individual Census Event per person, and is why that method is so popular and is supported by so many tools.

I do recommend that you use tools such as Ancestral Sources and some Plugins such as Lookup Missing Census Facts as they make the task of researching and capturing Census records so much easier once you have mastered them.

[jbtapscott]

Rusty - Just a point re using Ancestral Sources for census capture - if the individual already has a Census event for the selected Census year in FH then AS gives you a warning and allows you to overwrite / replace the FH Census event. This effectively means you don't have to ".. start all over again.." but can slowly replace the Census existing events in FH. A couple of years ago I changed what I wanted to record in each Census event in FH and am slowly re-entering the census records via FH again - a slow, laborious process but it does ensure that my website continues to display census data for individuals while I make the changes.

[Rusty]

Thank you Mike and Brent, I've spent the afternoon trying out AS as well as tinkering generally with my database and I'm still undecided what to do, I think that a few days quiet reflection might be the answer.

So thank you both for your input and thank you Mike for your patience.

Margaret.