* Media link information stored where?

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janeri
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Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 27 Dec 2018 12:09

Hi,

anyone knows where the media link (simple link, face link) information is stored?
Is it stored in the FH database, or is it stored as metadata in each individual photo (EXIF, IPTC, XMP)?

regards,
Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 27 Dec 2018 13:23

Welcome to the FHUG Jan.

Those details are stored in the _ASID, _AREA, etc, tags within the Media records of the GEDCOM file.
See Knowledge Base > GEDCOM Extension List > Multimedia: _ASID, _AREA, _EXCL, _CAPT.
You can see some of that data in the Media record Property Box via the Links and All tabs.

They cannot be stored in image metadata (EXIF, IPTC, XMP) for two reasons.
There can be any number of such links & frames per image, c.f. Group photo with many head & shoulder frames.
Some allowed image file types do NOT support metadata at all.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 27 Dec 2018 15:30

Thanks for the welcome :-)

and thanks for the info! I guess there is really no good way to make information like this portable yet. Which is a pity, as a photo often has much less value if you do not know who it show.

I am a TMG refugee, looking for the best available software for my purpose. Family Historian looks like a very good alternative, I'm also looking at Heredis and Rootsmagic.

Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 27 Dec 2018 15:49

See the Knowledge Base > Import from The Master Genealogist (TMG) guide for advice.
There are many TMG migrants here who will give plenty of further advice.

I would say RootsMagic is slightly better than Heredis.

Heredis does NOT support Unicode extended character set (FH & RootsMagic do).
Its support for Witnessed/Shared Events uses different tags to other programs.

RootsMagic supports more GEDCOM tags than Heredis but not as many as FH.
RootsMagic does NOT support Fact AGE tags.
It does support Sort Dates (_SDATE) like TMG, which are NOT supported by FH but there is a Plugin workaround.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 27 Dec 2018 16:41

Again, thanks for the helpful info! My first subjective observations after using the three alternatives for a short period (focusing on the positives):
  • Family Historian
    Good import from TMG, famous GEDCOM compatibility, modern and good user interface, photo tagging/linking, good reports, good support, user-society
  • Rootsmagic
    Good import from TMG, good integration with Ancestry and Familysearch, good support, user-society
  • Heredis
    Modern user interface, photo tagging/linking, great reports /charts, good apps for Android and iOS.
No Norwegian reports for any of the three (which late TMG offered).

At this point it looks likely that Family Historian may get my final vote, it seems best in the most important areas :-)

Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 27 Dec 2018 17:06

Have you also assessed Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources?
It has Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources Template ~ Census Norway 1801-1900.

Also checkout Knowledge Base > Key Features for Newcomers which mentions Ancestral Sources and Internet Data Matches integrated with FindMyPast and MyHeritage, plus Plugins (not available in trial version).
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 28 Dec 2018 19:52

Thanks again,

I did not notice Ancestral Sources before you mentioned it. It looks very useful and I'll be sure to test it. I just installed it and I noticed that the last published Norwegian census (1910) is not included. Just mentioning it in case it's of interest to the maintainer(s).

Jan
2018-12-28 20_47_44-Ancestral Sources v5.2.0_ Project_ Jan Eri.jpg
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 28 Dec 2018 22:40

Those Norway Templates were created by another FH/AS user just like you.
So with a little learning you could add the 1910 Census.
Most of the downloads in the Knowledge Base were produced by FHUG members not 'maintainers'.
In fact Ancestral Sources itself was also written by another FHUG member.
That all illustrates how much user customisation is possible with both FH and AS.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 29 Dec 2018 15:38

I am happy to contribute if I can. I have sent a message to BillH with a little more info for a start.

Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by BillH » 29 Dec 2018 20:42

Hi Jan,

I replied to you by private email but I'll repeat some of what I said here.

As for my templates for Norway, I created them just to capture the information I could, but they are probably not the best. For the US and state census templates that I created, I used the actual census forms as a basis for the template. For the Norwegian census templates that I created, I just used the results of searches that I did on the Norway Digital Archives site. The format is whatever format the Digital Archives decided to display the results in so they don't really match up with the actual forms. I uploaded them to the FHUG just so others might have a place to start.

The Digital Archives have changed several times since I made these templates so that the search results don't even match my templates anymore. I didn't know what to do with my existing templates. They match the entries I've already created but would probably not match very well with the current search results on the Digital Archives.

I could make a new template for the 1910 census. I would probably just set it up to match the format of the current results of a search on the Digital Archives. Would that be helpful?

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 30 Dec 2018 18:43

Thanks for explaning Bill

As a new user of FH and AC I'm probably not the right one to give advice, but I would certainly be interested in testing if you create a template for the 1910 census.

I could also be interested in looking closer at this later when I am more up and running with FH. Do you have any tips for good XML editors, or do you just code the templates "by hand" in an editor?

Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 31 Dec 2018 10:41

FYI:
AS has its own user dialogues with forms to fill for composing its various templates.
So we don't get involved in the XML code, and thus don't need an XML editor.
See Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources Tutorial ~ Working With Templates.

c.f. FH where much of the data is stored in the GEDCOM file, but we don't need a GEDCOM editor.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 31 Dec 2018 11:25

Thanks, I see now that I can create new templates inside AS choosing Census > Census Templates ... > New
Easier than I expected!

Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by BillH » 31 Dec 2018 21:05

Jan,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, it has been very hectic here over the holidays.

I created a template based on what the Digital Archives search results look like today. I have attached it to this thread. If it has any problems, I can make updates so let me know. If it looks OK to you I can add it to the other Norway census templates and upload them to the knowledge base.

If you wish you can also look at the earlier Norway census templates as well and let me know if you see any issues with them. I can update these as well.

Thanks!
Attachments
Bill's 1910 Norway Census Template.xml
(11.71 KiB) Downloaded 86 times

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janeri
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Template for Norwegian 1910 census

Post by janeri » 01 Jan 2019 13:09

Thanks Bill,

I don't think you were slow at all. On the contrary, active help and response like I have received from you and Mike Tate makes it much easier for me to decide to switch to FH. Actually, FH starts to look more and more like "good old TMG" to me - neither the active user society nor the more advanced features of FH where visble to me from the start, but it looks very good now.

I have now imported Bill's 1910 Norway Census Template.xml and registered the first family using Country=Norway, Year=1910 after having a look at https://www.fhug.org.uk/wiki/doku.php?i ... ng_started to make sure I got the basics right.

This seemed to work well!

For my case I only needed the first 10 columns (until Occupation), I did not use the remaining 21 columns to the right. In the 1910 census there are a few extra fields for emigrants to USA that returned to Norway, this was relevant for one of the members in my test family (see attachment, I can translate it if that helps).
A minor detail, I noted that the default title repeated "1910", like this "Census 1910 1910 Norway Census <Farm, Parish, County>"

Jan
AC_1910_census_N.jpg
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ft1910noam.jpg
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by BillH » 01 Jan 2019 17:05

Jan,

It looked like those additional fields are not often used although I came across some where Religious Community and Citizenship were filled in. I will add the Returned Norwegian-American fields at the end of the template as they seem to be even more rare. Does that seem OK to you?

As for the title, that is not a function of the census template. That is determined by your settings in the AS options. Select Tools > Options... and then select Census Settings - Method 1 or Census Settings - Method 2 from the drop down list depending on which method you are using. I use method 1. That is where you can adjust the Title Template. I use "{KEYPERSON.SN_GN} - {YEAR} {COUNTRY} {SOURCETYPE} {PLACE}". If you post what you have in your options I think we should be able to determine why the year gets duplicated.

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by BillH » 01 Jan 2019 17:21

Jan,

I have attached an updated 1910 Norway census template. let me know if you see anything else that needs changing.
Attachments
Bill's 1910 Norway Census Template.xml
(13.54 KiB) Downloaded 82 times

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 01 Jan 2019 18:28

Thanks, this looks fine! Do you really understand Norwegian?

Census Method 1 Title Template looks like this: {SOURCETYPE} {YEAR} {PLACE} {REF} ({OTHER})
I have not been editing this myself yet.

Jan

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 01 Jan 2019 18:48

In Tools > Options > Census settings have you set Source Type to Census 1910?

That needs to be generically suitable for all Census records of any Country and Year.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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janeri
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by janeri » 01 Jan 2019 19:05

No, Source Type = "Census". I have hardly touched anything under Options in AS yet

Jan
2019-01-01 20_02_56-Ancestral Sources Options.jpg
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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 01 Jan 2019 19:18

I've spotted the problem.
Bill has given his Census Template the Reference id value 1910 Norway Census <Farm, Parish, County>.
It should not have 1910 as that duplicates the Year in the template {SOURCETYPE} {YEAR} {REF}
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by BillH » 01 Jan 2019 22:32

Mike,

I see. if Jan doesn't enter a place then her template would result in the {YEAR} and {REF} being next to each other which would result in the 1910 1910 duplication she is seeing. I've never seen this duplication as I don't include {REF} in my title template. The way that I use the TITLE and REF means I do need to have the 1910 in both places. You mention a template "{SOURCETYPE} {YEAR} {REF}" . What template are you referring to?

If I am having a senior moment and not understanding the issue let me know.
Last edited by BillH on 01 Jan 2019 23:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 01 Jan 2019 23:03

Bill, no other Census Templates include the year in the Reference Id, not even your Knowledge Base > Ancestral Sources Template ~ Census Norway 1801-1900 nor your USA templates or any of the AS built-in templates.
All the Census Templates must be consistent in that respect, otherwise it is not possible to devise each Title Template so that it applies for every Census in every Country for every Year, unless you omit {REF} from them, but that is not the default.

{SOURCETYPE} {YEAR} {REF} was just 'representative', but all the Method 1 Title templates usually include {YEAR} and {REF} so will suffer the same problem:
Census Image Title Template
Census Method 1 Title Template
Census Method 1 Short Title Template

Either EVERY Reference Id must omit the Year and each Title Template must include {YEAR}
OR EVERY Reference Id must include the Year and each Title Template must omit {YEAR}.
A mixture of those two strategies won't work unless you keep redefining the Templates.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by BillH » 01 Jan 2019 23:31

Mike,

It is starting to come back to me. I looked at all my templates that I am using in AS and they all have the year and other info that I use that others probably don't want. Last time I sent the templates to you and if I recall correctly you modified all the REF ID's before putting them on the site to make them more generic. Does that match your recollection?

I have made some small changes to some other templates and a have a new Arizona template and Norway template that are not currently on the site.

Should I send these to you and have you "cleanse" the REF ID again and put them on the site? If it makes more sense I can copy my templates and "cleanse" them and update the site, but it has been a long time and I'm not sure how to do that anymore so you might have to step me through it.

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Re: Media link information stored where?

Post by tatewise » 01 Jan 2019 23:48

Bill,
Your recollection is better than mine, but your description sounds rational.
As a matter of interest, how do you handle the Ref Id for UK Census entries? i.e. HO107, RG13, etc?
I presume you don't include those in any of the Titles.
Please attach "cleansed" versions here and I will add them to the KB downloads.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry

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