* Start over?
Start over?
Hi, I have now retired and have a bit more spare time so wondered if I should do a complete redo of my current tree of around 6000 people and start doing sources properly.... I have only recently tried Ancestral sources but the majority of source info in my tree I have added (copied and pasted from docs on Ancestry etc) under Facts tab - see census example. I also save all relevant docs such as census/BMD/Baptism etc to my pc and will add the images to my FH project, but seem to spend an age getting the docs in decent order before I make that commitment .
Has anyone re-done their tree and can they please offer any advice which would be most gratefully received
Many thanks
Has anyone re-done their tree and can they please offer any advice which would be most gratefully received
Many thanks
Re: Start over?
Nita,
It seems to me that in copying the record direct from Ancestry records screen, you have ended up with an awful lot of information, most of which will be duplicated for each member of the household, yet at the same time you are missing the actual Street address, which Ancestry tends not to show for all censuses in the individual’s record, quite often pointing you to the image for that vital piece of information. More to the point, from the Ancestry records, he appears to living in Sanderstead, yet you show him living in Croydon!
To my way of thinking, the Individual records that Ancestry shows, are there so you can ensure you have found the correct individual, not necessarily for you to copy and paste into your tree.
Having established that I have correct family, my method involves downloading the image, and then just extract the relevant information I need for each member of the family.
This usually boils down to:
Census fact: Year, Place, Address, Age + Citation
Occupation fact: Year, Occupation, Age + Citation (omit if no Occupation shown)
My citation, using your example would simply read: Census 1861 - RG09 Piece 0447 Folio 22 Page 08
The image will be stored in a folder called Census 1861, with a filename 1861 0447 F022 P08
All the other bumpf on the image, Parish, Registration district, schedule number, who else was in the houshold etc is not extracted. If I or anyone else ever needs that information, they can just look at the image.
These points are made as pure suggestions, as I would never dream of telling anyone how to record their research.
It seems to me that in copying the record direct from Ancestry records screen, you have ended up with an awful lot of information, most of which will be duplicated for each member of the household, yet at the same time you are missing the actual Street address, which Ancestry tends not to show for all censuses in the individual’s record, quite often pointing you to the image for that vital piece of information. More to the point, from the Ancestry records, he appears to living in Sanderstead, yet you show him living in Croydon!
To my way of thinking, the Individual records that Ancestry shows, are there so you can ensure you have found the correct individual, not necessarily for you to copy and paste into your tree.
Having established that I have correct family, my method involves downloading the image, and then just extract the relevant information I need for each member of the family.
This usually boils down to:
Census fact: Year, Place, Address, Age + Citation
Occupation fact: Year, Occupation, Age + Citation (omit if no Occupation shown)
My citation, using your example would simply read: Census 1861 - RG09 Piece 0447 Folio 22 Page 08
The image will be stored in a folder called Census 1861, with a filename 1861 0447 F022 P08
All the other bumpf on the image, Parish, Registration district, schedule number, who else was in the houshold etc is not extracted. If I or anyone else ever needs that information, they can just look at the image.
These points are made as pure suggestions, as I would never dream of telling anyone how to record their research.
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- ColeValleyGirl
- Megastar
- Posts: 5465
- Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
I've been doing a 'do-over' for 18 months and have found both errors and new information (because I'm a better genealogist than I was when I started). And it's been an opportunity to improve the way I cite my sources, and to revamp my image storage.
On images, I've moved away from an elaborate filing structure -- if I need to view an image I always navigate to it in FH, so where it is in a directory structure is less important. My source directory structure is basically:
- Country (England, Wales, Canada, New Zealand, USA, etc.)
- Document type (Census, Parish Register, etc.)
and my file names (which match the media record names) are of the form:
Year Event Place, Individual
For Place I use something like "England Darlaston" -- i.e. "country parish/town"
I also have a single directory for Images (photographs of places or people) with the same naming structure (if I don't know the year I leave it out, ditto for the other elements). And another directory for any documents I've written about my research (explaining why, for example, I believe that X is correctly identified as the daughter of Y and Z) -- these tend to be named something like "Identification of X born Year"
Doing it this way keeps it simple and keeps the file names relatively short, and I don't have to think too hard about where to file something.
On images, I've moved away from an elaborate filing structure -- if I need to view an image I always navigate to it in FH, so where it is in a directory structure is less important. My source directory structure is basically:
- Country (England, Wales, Canada, New Zealand, USA, etc.)
- Document type (Census, Parish Register, etc.)
and my file names (which match the media record names) are of the form:
Year Event Place, Individual
For Place I use something like "England Darlaston" -- i.e. "country parish/town"
I also have a single directory for Images (photographs of places or people) with the same naming structure (if I don't know the year I leave it out, ditto for the other elements). And another directory for any documents I've written about my research (explaining why, for example, I believe that X is correctly identified as the daughter of Y and Z) -- these tend to be named something like "Identification of X born Year"
Doing it this way keeps it simple and keeps the file names relatively short, and I don't have to think too hard about where to file something.
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
ColeValleyGirl's family history
Re: Start over?
Hi Mike and Helen, thanks so much for your helpful replies. I think I have been making thing difficult for myself!
Pointing to the image itself rather than just copying/pasting multiple entries seems to be the most useful thing to do, with the correct citations in place of course.
I appreciate your suggestions - thanks again for your time
Nita
Pointing to the image itself rather than just copying/pasting multiple entries seems to be the most useful thing to do, with the correct citations in place of course.
I appreciate your suggestions - thanks again for your time
Nita
Re: Start over?
Helen,
I am concerned about your lack of filing structure. Whilst you don’t need to know where it is filed, because you rely on FH to tell you, somewhere down the line, you will encounter a problem when FH crashes and you can’t use it to find and access your files!
What’s wrong with having a decent filing system AND using FH to navigate to your files, then if FH crashes, you can still get to your files easily.
A filing system should be Simple and logically organised, and should not be reliant on third party programmes to find anything. If it’s too complicated, you won’t want to use it!
Spending a little time organising your filing system before you start, will reap huge dividends in the future.
I estimate I currently have at least 10,000 census images, and I can find the correct image to look at, in a matter of seconds!
Likewise with parish register images of baptism, marriages, banns and burials, (quantity now approaching 5,000). These are easy to find because everyone in my tree has a custom ID, and everything personal, is stored using that ID as a prefix. (I don’t regard a census return as personal, as it covers more than one individual)
So a typical Christening file would be named J0256 Christening of William Smith, and stored in my Christening folder. My custom ID is such that all files for family members are naturally stored near one another.
Remember the KISS principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid
NB Details of my custom ID structure is available on request
I am concerned about your lack of filing structure. Whilst you don’t need to know where it is filed, because you rely on FH to tell you, somewhere down the line, you will encounter a problem when FH crashes and you can’t use it to find and access your files!
What’s wrong with having a decent filing system AND using FH to navigate to your files, then if FH crashes, you can still get to your files easily.
A filing system should be Simple and logically organised, and should not be reliant on third party programmes to find anything. If it’s too complicated, you won’t want to use it!
Spending a little time organising your filing system before you start, will reap huge dividends in the future.
I estimate I currently have at least 10,000 census images, and I can find the correct image to look at, in a matter of seconds!
Likewise with parish register images of baptism, marriages, banns and burials, (quantity now approaching 5,000). These are easy to find because everyone in my tree has a custom ID, and everything personal, is stored using that ID as a prefix. (I don’t regard a census return as personal, as it covers more than one individual)
So a typical Christening file would be named J0256 Christening of William Smith, and stored in my Christening folder. My custom ID is such that all files for family members are naturally stored near one another.
Remember the KISS principle, Keep It Simple, Stupid
NB Details of my custom ID structure is available on request
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- ColeValleyGirl
- Megastar
- Posts: 5465
- Joined: 28 Dec 2005 22:02
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Cirencester, Gloucestershire
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
Mike,
If FH crashes and won't restart I can reinstall it. My files are backed up overnight to two separate places and are also in Dropbox (so effectively are backed up offsite soon after they're created as well as to a local NAS).
If I need to find a file without using FH, my naming structure allows for rapid searching by name (first, full or surname), place, year or document type.
After 40 years in IT, I'm comfortable that what I'm doing.
Helen
If FH crashes and won't restart I can reinstall it. My files are backed up overnight to two separate places and are also in Dropbox (so effectively are backed up offsite soon after they're created as well as to a local NAS).
If I need to find a file without using FH, my naming structure allows for rapid searching by name (first, full or surname), place, year or document type.
After 40 years in IT, I'm comfortable that what I'm doing.
Helen
Helen Wright
ColeValleyGirl's family history
ColeValleyGirl's family history
Re: Start over?
Nuff said
Just my Computer Science degree rearing its head again
Just my Computer Science degree rearing its head again
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- tatewise
- Megastar
- Posts: 28341
- Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
Firstly, both Nita55 and Gowermick are correct regarding the location, as Sanderstead is a village in Croydon District.
Chelsham is a village a few miles further south-east in the adjacent Tandridge District.
So it depends on what you choose to enter into the Place field.
If Town, County, Country then Croydon, Surrey, UK is correct, and Sanderstead can be part of Address.
However, this is one feature that Nita55 should review - how to organise Place and Address names.
That is quite a discussion topic in its own right - but do at least include Country in your Place names.
I expect your Start Over will cover BMD Certificates as well as Census records, and much much more.
Give Ancestral Sources a try, as it provides a convenient and consistent method of capturing many records.
It does take account of existing BMD & Census facts and allows them to be replaced or updated.
However, there may need to be some tidying up afterwards of any unwanted details.
You need to decided where to use Method 1 splitter mode and Method 2 lumper mode for Source Citations.
See glossary:sources|> Source Records for details.
You will probably need a method to keep track of what you have reviewed and what is next on your list.
This usually focusses on family groups of Individuals, so Named Lists can be very useful.
See how_to:create_work_in_progress_or_research_to_do_lists|> Create Work In Progress or Research To Do Lists.
Chelsham is a village a few miles further south-east in the adjacent Tandridge District.
So it depends on what you choose to enter into the Place field.
If Town, County, Country then Croydon, Surrey, UK is correct, and Sanderstead can be part of Address.
However, this is one feature that Nita55 should review - how to organise Place and Address names.
That is quite a discussion topic in its own right - but do at least include Country in your Place names.
I expect your Start Over will cover BMD Certificates as well as Census records, and much much more.
Give Ancestral Sources a try, as it provides a convenient and consistent method of capturing many records.
It does take account of existing BMD & Census facts and allows them to be replaced or updated.
However, there may need to be some tidying up afterwards of any unwanted details.
You need to decided where to use Method 1 splitter mode and Method 2 lumper mode for Source Citations.
See glossary:sources|> Source Records for details.
You will probably need a method to keep track of what you have reviewed and what is next on your list.
This usually focusses on family groups of Individuals, so Named Lists can be very useful.
See how_to:create_work_in_progress_or_research_to_do_lists|> Create Work In Progress or Research To Do Lists.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
Re: Start over?
Tatewise,
I do know where Sanderstead is, but my point was that using generic Croydon as a Placename seemed wrong, when it actually referred to the more accurate Sanderstead.
I do know where Sanderstead is, but my point was that using generic Croydon as a Placename seemed wrong, when it actually referred to the more accurate Sanderstead.
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- dewilkinson
- Superstar
- Posts: 286
- Joined: 04 Nov 2016 19:05
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Oundle, Northamptonshire, England
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
I am in the process of going through all of my entries (>24,000 individuals) which is going to take about four years. We started entering in TMG before transferring to FH and many sources were not properly cited. I have attached two images to demonstrate the standards I have set my self. The FH is self explanatory. I am storing all images and files in a individuals folder in the FH Media folder. This means they all are included in the full back-up process. To avoid having multiple copies of images etc I use shortcuts for each individual pointing to the document in the main individuals folder. I am also taking the opportunity to update each place to my preferred format and to set its map co-ordinates. This work has identified several errors and uncovered a huge amount of additional information.
As we had entered everything manually in TMG and I prefer doing that, I don't use Ancestral Sources although I have tried it and would recommend it for those setting out.
I would strongly recommend that you experiment first to set the standards you wish to work to before you get too far.
Best of luck.
As we had entered everything manually in TMG and I prefer doing that, I don't use Ancestral Sources although I have tried it and would recommend it for those setting out.
I would strongly recommend that you experiment first to set the standards you wish to work to before you get too far.
Best of luck.
David Wilkinson researching Bowtle, Butcher, Edwards, Gillingham, Overett, Ransome, Simpson, and Wilkinson in East Anglia
Deterioration is contagious, and places are destroyed or renovated by the spirit of the people who go to them
Deterioration is contagious, and places are destroyed or renovated by the spirit of the people who go to them
- tatewise
- Megastar
- Posts: 28341
- Joined: 25 May 2010 11:00
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Torbay, Devon, UK
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
@Gowermick ~ It all depends on your Place and Address naming conventions.
Some users like to record the Registration District in the Place field, especially as that is often all you have initially, such as with GRO Index entries. See David Wilkinson's example for Birth Place.
If the convention is Town, County, Country then Croydon, Surrey, UK is valid, as according to Wikipedia Croydon is a large town, whereas Sanderstead is a village parish within Croydon borough, but may be that was different at the time of the 1861 Census. Sanderstead can be included in the Address field so the info is not lost/hidden.
It may depend on whether your convention is to use ancient or modern Place names, where modern names are easier to geocode for map coordinates.
These are some of the criteria Nita55 needs to consider as an aspect of starting over.
Some users like to record the Registration District in the Place field, especially as that is often all you have initially, such as with GRO Index entries. See David Wilkinson's example for Birth Place.
If the convention is Town, County, Country then Croydon, Surrey, UK is valid, as according to Wikipedia Croydon is a large town, whereas Sanderstead is a village parish within Croydon borough, but may be that was different at the time of the 1861 Census. Sanderstead can be included in the Address field so the info is not lost/hidden.
It may depend on whether your convention is to use ancient or modern Place names, where modern names are easier to geocode for map coordinates.
These are some of the criteria Nita55 needs to consider as an aspect of starting over.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history ~ tatewise ancestry
Re: Start over?
MikeTate,tatewise wrote:@Gowermick ~ If the convention is Town, County, Country then Croydon, Surrey, UK is valid, as according to Wikipedia Croydon is a large town, whereas Sanderstead is a village parish within Croydon borough
It may depend on whether your convention is to use ancient or modern Place names, where modern names are easier to geocode for map coordinates.
I think you may have missed the point I was trying to make, which was that whilst Croydon, Surrey, UK is a valid place, it is NOT the place shown on the Census, which is Sanderstead. When looking at the image, it clearly shows Surrey, Sanderstead, District3 on the heading bar. IMHO, in 1861 it was a village, quite distinct from the town of Croydon, 4 miles away. In my 1852 map, they are even of a similar size, with clear countryside between them!
Now whether you include Sanderstead as an actual place, or part of the address is down to user preference, but in this case, I would enter it as the Place, as it still exists today and is easy to find and geo-code!
Mike Loney
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
Website http://www.loney.tribalpages.com
http://www.mickloney.tribalpages.com
- Jane
- Site Admin
- Posts: 8508
- Joined: 01 Nov 2002 15:00
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Somerset, England
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
Just to add on Ancestry's "places" for the Census, they are typically the Registration District and not the Place, so I always use the actual Civil Parish not the "Place" as a parish combined with a county and country is almost always enough to Geo-code.
Especially in Rural areas, RDs can be huge as they were based in most cases on the Poor Law Unions.
Especially in Rural areas, RDs can be huge as they were based in most cases on the Poor Law Unions.
Jane
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
My Family History : My Photography "Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad."
-
- Superstar
- Posts: 256
- Joined: 18 Dec 2014 11:06
- Family Historian: V7
- Location: Suffolk, England
- Contact:
Re: Start over?
Returning to the original question my response would be "not exactly"!Has anyone re-done their tree and can they please offer any advice which would be most gratefully received
Your file is slightly larger than mine when I started with FH and maybe yours is a bit more overloaded with what I would see as unnecessary data acquired by accepting everything that Ancestry has thrown at you. What I did was not to start again but tried to make sure that the facts had some conformity. For this I used Ancestral Sources and my first task was to identify how many census pages I would need to download. I was already aware that the Census would be the larger proportion of the media items in my project so decided that it would be my starting point.
As I had started out around 20 years ago, all my records of the census were transcripts that I had made and kept in a paper filing system. I estimated that I had in excess of 1,000 census pages and decided to take my time extracting 5 to 10 per day which would get me through the task within a year. As each census was recorded I deleted the old record.
One advantage in taking time was that I didn't see it as a chore and I started to learn more about the intricacies of FH as I went along. By using Ancestral Sources I knew that all the new data had been added in the same format reducing the chance of errors or overlooking something.
There are various ways that you could use to identify your census entries but as a suggestion you might like to look at the Census Record Checklist Custom Query (fhugdownloads:contents:census_check_list_-_including_family_fixed|> Query:Individual ~ Census Record Checklist All) the results of which you could modify to suit your needs and then either print out as a master copy to work through or save as a Named List if you prefer to save paper. I am sure someone else could offer a different solution to track your progress in making the changes.
In summary my advice would be to keep what you have already got, but modify what is there into a more useable and user friendy project.
Brian
Re: Start over?
Thank you everyone - I have learnt a lot from your replies, examples and suggestions -they have given me lots to think about. I definitely need to make some decisions and then be consistant in whatever standards/methods I use
Much appreciated
Much appreciated