*Relatives, groups and pools?

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E Wilcock
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Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 07 Jul 2018 08:16

This question applies also to the Export Gedcom plug in.
In fh one can easily show a chart with a family group or All relatives.
Is there any way of selecting everyone on a chart to add to a named list for Gedcom export?

In TMG one could easily select a family group of people and I wanted today to move about 20 people from one project to another. I use the Export GEDCOM plug in. I can make a named list of all individuals in a particular school. But I want to move them with their family too. Parents, spouse, children if any have been entered.

In searching help - I found the word Pool but dont know what that is in fh?

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby tatewise » 07 Jul 2018 09:49

Firstly, do not use the Export Gedcom File Plugin to move records from one FH Project to another FH Project.
Instead use the File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File built-in FH command.

In the Export Gedcom File dialogue you choose records via the Select... button.
There top left there is a Named Lists tab from which to choose members of a Named List.
For each such Individual listed on the left use Add using Query > All Relatives to add all Ancestors & Descendants.
However, you only mention parents, spouses & children, so may not want all generations.
In that case you will need a custom Query similar to Immediate Family but including parents.
Also see Knowledge Base > Export GEDCOM File Command.

An FH Help > Search for Pool explains what a Pool is all about.
Essentially it identifies all Individuals related to one another either directly or indirectly by marriage, however distant that might be.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby LornaCraig » 07 Jul 2018 10:13

E Wilcock wrote:Is there any way of selecting everyone on a chart to add to a named list for Gedcom export?

Yes, if you prefer to work from a diagram this can be done easily. Ensure that the entire diagram is visible, then use the mouse to draw a rectangle round everyone. (Left-click and drag the mouse from one corner to the opposite corner). This will select all the boxes in the diagram. Then use Edit > Add to Named List. See Knowledge Base > Create an export Gedcom based on a diagram.
Lorna

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 07 Jul 2018 14:02

O thank you both so much. I have copied and pasted this guidance.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 21 Jul 2018 08:23

tatewise wrote:Firstly, do not use the Export Gedcom File Plugin to move records from one FH Project to another FH Project.
Instead use the File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File built-in FH command.

In the Export Gedcom File dialogue you choose records via the Select... button.
There top left there is a Named Lists tab from which to choose members of a Named List.
For each such Individual listed on the left use Add using Query > All Relatives to add all Ancestors & Descendants.
However, you only mention parents, spouses & children, so may not want all generations.
In that case you will need a custom Query similar to Immediate Family but including parents.
Also see Knowledge Base > Export GEDCOM File Command.

Yesterday in the archive I wanted to move a group of 10 people from one fh Project to another. I had them in a Named list.
I remembered Mike's instruction to use the fh built in Export.
But thereafter got hopelessly lost.
This was a list of pupils in a particular school on a census, all with the same source.
For a few of them I had parents and siblings who I wanted to export as well. But my attempts to Add Using Query failed. fh selected quite a different person and offered their relatives.

The next problem came when I used the merge and compare to import the Gedcom to the other project. There were only two duplicate individuals. But the list showed so many sources that I went back and re-exported with no sources at all.
This does not matter as they were on the list only because they shared the same census source.
My understanding is that using the plug in would have enabled me to select and export just the sources attached to the people being exported?

I would like to do all this again using my home computer, just to learn how it should be done. But my attempts this morning have failed.
The positive thing is that the new search worked very well, and I got back to this thread.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby tatewise » 21 Jul 2018 14:12

Evelyn, I think you have missed some of the points.

You say you had 10 people in a Named List.
So after using File > Import/Export > Export > GEDCOM File, you clicked the Select... button, and in the Select Records dialogue first used the Name Lists tab top left to choose those 10 people?

You then tried using Add using Query but which Query did you choose?
I think all the Ancestors/Descendants/Relatives queries prompt for a Starting Person ~ did that not happen?
Anyway, there are no standard queries that return just parents & siblings, so you will have to write one as I suggested.

In the Export Gedcom File dialogue, what Exclude tick options did you choose?
Unconnected Records should be ticked to exclude all those unassociated Sources, etc.
Then only the Sources cited by those 10 people and their chosen relatives would be included.

My Export Gedcom File Plugin has NO options whatsoever to select records.
That filtering must always be done using built-in FH commands such as described above.
In any case, that Plugin is for exporting to other products not for importing back into FH itself.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 21 Jul 2018 15:24

tatewise wrote:Evelyn, I think you have missed some of the points.

You then tried using Add using Query but which Query did you choose?
I think all the Ancestors/Descendants/Relatives queries prompt for a Starting Person ~ did that not happen?

Yes that happened. It showed the name of someone not even on the named list for export. So that confused me.
I assumed that relatives would be added to the ten people I had already selected?
There is a browse for the person option, but is it that one has to find the people on that list and for each one of them add their relatives?

I expected to be able to add them all at once.

tatewise wrote:Connected Records should be ticked to exclude all those unassociated Sources, etc.
Then only the Sources cited by those 10 people and their chosen relatives would be included.

I completely misunderstood this. I thought the option to include or exclude sources was the only optiom that referred to sources.

I thought the option to include or exclude unconnected records and the one member family records both referred to individuals, and needed to be unchecked in order to export all the school list, most of whom have no relatives entered. I should have unchecked the one member family and left the unconnected records checked.

I did also read the fh official help page by clicking the Help button. I dont really understand this either. It caused me to panic thinking the act of exporting the group would be removed from the Project i.e. leaving disconnected sources, places and people. But I have just been through the whole thing again (following your guidance) and see they are still safely there.

I am very grateful to you Mike and I have become dependent on fh - but I begin to despair of my ability to master it.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby tatewise » 21 Jul 2018 16:18

If you select each person that you obtained from the Named List one by one before Add using Query then they will be pre-selected as the Starting Person, BUT as I said, none of the standard Queries will find just parents & siblings and certainly not for multiple Individuals. So you will have to write a custom query that performs that specific task.

I recall that this scenario with the Export Gedcom File dialogue has arisen before where you got more records than required.
Usually, just leave the tick options in their default setting. It is rare that any other setting is required.
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 23 Jul 2018 10:59

I am still a bit baffled by this. Can we forget the export and gedcom elements and clarify whether one can select the relatives of more than one person.

If one is using fh for a place study, this situation must surely often arise when one wants to group all the people listed in a college, or a work house or barracks and add any known relatives?

There is an all relatives query in FH. Can that query not be run to find all relatives of people listed at a certain address? Or on a certain Named List?

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby Jane » 23 Jul 2018 12:18

I have written the query to add all the relations of the people in a Named List.

You can not select a list name using a Prompt so you will need to go to the Rows Tab and select first line and select the List you want to use BEFORE using the query on the export.
Attachments
All Relatives of List Members.fhq
(552 Bytes) Downloaded 36 times
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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 23 Jul 2018 12:39

Jane, thank you so much.
I couldnt believe it when I saw you had managed it with a query. And so quickly. That will be so useful to me.
(Bit ashamed that I didnt manage to write it myself.) But many many thanks.

I have now understood how you did it and how I should have been able to. I hadnt noticed during my lessons in writing queries (failed to learn) that those other two tabs were there offering lists and relations.
My course with Mike was mostly using queries on Events and in order to add relatives, one had to go through the list of possible data references.

Here it is Individuals. And my old brain was too creaky to cotton on.
Last edited by E Wilcock on 23 Jul 2018 12:50, edited 1 time in total.

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tatewise
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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby tatewise » 23 Jul 2018 12:46

Sorry Jane, but the Query can prompt for the Named List as per my Attachment.
Example Rows tab filter:
Add if =IsInList(%INDI%,["Select List"]) is true

The Query could also select multiple Individuals with a particular Flag.
Example Rows tab filter:
Add if =HasFlag(%INDI%,["Select Flag"]) is true

Other 'global' parameters such as Name, Sex, or Custom Id could similarly be used to select multiple Individuals.

BUT an Individual Query cannot use the Address or Place or Date of any unspecified Fact as a Rows tab filter.
That would need a Fact Query, but then the Relations tab is not available to find relatives.

The above suggestions will find ALL relatives as you requested today.
BUT last week you requested just Parents & Siblings which requires a different approach.
Is that still a requirement?

In summary, as I said earlier, you cannot use any Standard Query, but a Custom Query should be feasible.

BTW: Jane's Query does NOT find ALL relatives, but only direct blood ancestors of Named List, and the direct blood descendants of the resulting persons. It does not include relatives by marriage, nor more distant relatives.
Compare the number of Records in Result Set reported bottom right by Jane's Query versus my Query.
I wager they will be significantly different.
Attachments
All Relatives Named List.fhq
(1.57 KiB) Downloaded 39 times
Mike Tate ~ researching the Tate and Scott family history.

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Jane
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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby Jane » 23 Jul 2018 12:49

One possible option to search facts and then produce the answer is to use a fact query to create a named list of the owner and then use your query or mine to get the relations.
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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby E Wilcock » 23 Jul 2018 12:57

About to have a few days' break with no computer - this help is tho much appreciated. Jane's query fits the instance I was coping with. And I will have a think about other possible uses.

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Re: Relatives, groups and pools?

Postby jimlad68 » 09 Aug 2018 12:58

bit of a late response as usual.
It all depends on your definition of All Relatives. I think:
Jane's version is "presumed blood" relatives
Mike's version is a whole lot more with extended families of spouses (not sure how far it would go).
I think my attached version has all "presumed blood" relatives + just their spouses then the last 2 rows add spouses of spouses + step children (1 generation descendants).
Attachments
All Relatives Named List Inc Spouse+their Spouse+step children.fhq
(1.98 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
Jim Orrell - researching: see - but way out of date http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=james-orrell3


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